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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Here's a little enlightenment.Who'd a thunk it, the same ol', same ol'
    Where Uncle Sam Ought to Be Snooping
    "But Americans have more on the surveillance front to worry about than overzealous government agents. Government personnel aren’t actually doing the snooping the 29-year-old Snowden revealed. NSA officials have contracted this snooping out — to private corporate contractors.

    These surveillance contracts, in turn, are making contractor executives exceedingly rich. And none have profited personally more than the power suits who run Booz Allen Hamilton and the private equity Carlyle Group.

    Whistle-blower Snowden did his snooping as a Booz Allen employee. Booz Allen, overall, has had tens of thousands of employees doing intelligence work for the federal government.

    Booz Allen alumni also populate the highest echelons of America’s intelligence apparatus — and vice versa. The Obama administration’s top intelligence official, James Clapper, just happens to be a former Booz Allen exec. The George W. Bush intelligence chief, John McConnell, now serves as the Booz Allen vice chair.

    All these revolving doors open up into enormously lucrative worlds. In their 2010 fiscal year, the top five Booz Allen execs together pocketed just under $20 million. They averaged 23 times what members of Congress take home.

    But the real windfalls are flowing to top execs at the Carlyle Group, Booz Allen’s parent company since 2008. In 2011, Carlyle’s top three power suits shared a combined payday over $400 million.

    More windfalls will be arriving soon. Carlyle paid $2.54 billion to buy up Booz Allen. Analysts are now expecting that Carlyle’s ultimate return on the acquisition will triple the private equity giant’s initial cash outlay.

    What do all these mega millions have to do with the massive surveillance that Edward Snowden has so dramatically exposed? Washington power players, from the President on down, are insisting that this surveillance has one and only one purpose: keeping Americans safe from terrorism."
    Exactly right! The crony capitalism opportunities in the war on terror are boundless.

    OWO simply kids himself into thinking they do not exist.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I doubt it. They got their ideas from the great thinkers of the Enlightenment, who had some awesome ideas and some that weren't so great. Ideas adapt or they die. The lionization of the guys is fine, the lionization of their ideas as still being the possible thoughts ever, two to three hundred years later is a bit silly.
    Fashions of the day can certainly be "quite silly" but there are some truths involving the freedom of the individual which must be continuous if we are to stay free.
    Anyway, as mentioned, even were you to subscribe to the original Franklin quote you shared, no two people will agree on exactly what is 'essential' and what is 'temporary' so the quote becomes nothing more than a nice turn of the phrase, that everyone would agree with in general but not in specific.
    No two people may agree on what is essential but the important thing is that they are allowed to disagree, and that is covered in the First Amendment. That should never be taken as 'temporary'.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Exactly right! The crony capitalism opportunities in the war on terror are boundless.

    OWO simply kids himself into thinking they do not exist.
    lol what? Who said anything about that?,

    You seem to have thoroughly confused relevant and irrelevant . You thought something pertinent was irrelevant and something no one talked about was relevant. Medication, medication.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I absolutely disagree. If you have absolute complete freedom to do anything you want, what type of protection (security) do I have from you beating the **** out of me? None. I just have to hope I can fight you off.
    Like or not that is what you have now....Ask a police officer, they are not there to protect you from crime, but rather to find out who did what, and bring the law breaker to account for their actions...Now you can say that certain punishments are designed to be a deterrent, but that doesn't stop the hard core with malicious intent from carrying out the actions.

    If Microsoft had had complete freedom to expand in the ways and methods they wanted to in the mid 90s, what security would we have from them creating a monopoly and forcing us to pay whatever they wanted us to pay?
    Sure doesn't seem like anything done slowed Gates down any....A more apt description of any restraint that Microsoft experienced was the explosion of Apple products that took the public eye off of Microsoft.

    All societies give up some manner of freedom for some security, going back for...hell, as long as there have been societies. Humans are prevented from acting in some ways in order to provide security for them.
    While that may be true, it doesn't mean that it can't be corrupted.

    If this is too far towards security and away from freedom for your liking, that's fine, but the spectrum does exist.
    Again, I am not saying that we don't...So I really don't know why you are arguing that with me.

    If you're talking about lying to prevent classified answers from being given in an open meeting, I have no complaint with them doing that. I think most people in intelligence tell lies, either of omission or commission, on a daily basis. That goes part and parcel with doing something that not everyone can know about. Remember George Washington said that "“(U)pon Secrecy, Success depends in Most Enterprises…and for want of it, they are generally defeated.”
    Well, I think that quote is a little out of context for this conversation, but, my answer is NO, I don't accept that lying to congress, under oath is acceptable in any manner, for any reason. It has already been pointed out that many other answers can be given without lying, but once we accept lying the door is open, and accountability is gone....Maybe that is fine for you, not me.

    I don't see what that has to do with what I said, but I agree. The point is 'ever increasing' is misleading. The US used to open mail back in Washington's day (it's partially how they caught Benedict Arnold), now they're collecting cellphone metadata. Have things really been increasing that much?
    Yeah, I don't think things really have increased that much...At least according to President Obama, the WoT has been winding down, and is all but over, so why the increased collection of data on domestic targets, and with the wide net? Nah, this look authoritarian to me.

    Maybe. That's all hypothetical.
    And maybe it's not, which is why we must hold those testifying to congress accountable when they lie.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol? Did anyone dispute that?


    (psst, if you wanna sound intelligent, know how to spell the unit of measure)



    What? Did you just randomly go on about how large a unit of measure was that you misspelled, which no one had debated, and then call someone ignorant? lol that's awesome.
    Oh wow you can spell Zeta-Byte, it means you have access to a online dictionary.

    What else can you tell us about that technology ? Seems your so intelligent ( not too intelligent, your'e defending a corrupt administration ) , you should be able to expand on your abillity to use spell-check.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    But that's almost beside the point to me. What would you prize higher: upholding the constitution or protecting Americans? Especially keeping in mind that the constitution was created to protect Americans...
    False dilemma.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance


  8. #578
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Oh wow you can spell Zeta-Byte, it means you have access to a online dictionary.

    What else can you tell us about that technology ? Seems your so intelligent ( not too intelligent, your'e defending a corrupt administration ) , you should be able to expand on your abillity to use spell-check.
    Defending a corrupt and criminal administration is not necessarily a function of intelligence. Rather, it is a function of principles and conscience. One can be quite intelligent and still defend criminality. It happens all the time, sad to say.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Like or not that is what you have now....Ask a police officer, they are not there to protect you from crime, but rather to find out who did what, and bring the law breaker to account for their actions...Now you can say that certain punishments are designed to be a deterrent, but that doesn't stop the hard core with malicious intent from carrying out the actions.
    So you're saying you have the freedom to break laws? If you put it that way, we all have the freedom to do anything we want, so what's the issue?

    Sure doesn't seem like anything done slowed Gates down any....A more apt description of any restraint that Microsoft experienced was the explosion of Apple products that took the public eye off of Microsoft.
    It slowed down Microsoft quite a bit in the 1990s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ion#Settlement

    While that may be true, it doesn't mean that it can't be corrupted.
    I never suggested otherwise.

    Again, I am not saying that we don't...So I really don't know why you are arguing that with me.
    You said that freedom versus security was a false dilemma, that it didn't have to be that way. I'm telling you that in general, that's exactly what happens. If you're no longer saying that's the case, then there

    Well, I think that quote is a little out of context for this conversation, but, my answer is NO, I don't accept that lying to congress, under oath is acceptable in any manner, for any reason. It has already been pointed out that many other answers can be given without lying, but once we accept lying the door is open, and accountability is gone....Maybe that is fine for you, not me.
    The accountability is there in closed sessions. Not in the open, for the whole world to see.

    Yeah, I don't think things really have increased that much...At least according to President Obama, the WoT has been winding down, and is all but over, so why the increased collection of data on domestic targets, and with the wide net? Nah, this look authoritarian to me.
    Increased from when? It's been like this since well before Obama.

    And maybe it's not, which is why we must hold those testifying to congress accountable when they lie.
    Not if it's in the open.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Oh wow you can spell Zeta-Byte, it means you have access to a online dictionary.

    What else can you tell us about that technology ? Seems your so intelligent ( not too intelligent, your'e defending a corrupt administration ) , you should be able to expand on your abillity to use spell-check.
    What technology? How do you even know that that's the size of the NSA facility? Why are you so focused on this one in particular?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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