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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I'll never get over how some people consider the founders to be saints that could never be wrong. Regardless, who knew having a storehouse of your phones metadata was essential? Who knew that the threat of non-state actors is only temporary?

    Learn something new every day.
    Most don't think of them as 'saints' but as good men who managed to put together some ideas and documents that lasted people from all cultures and levels of society for well over two centuries.

    Ben Franklin also said "A great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges". We can see that happening with the abuses of the 4th, 6th and 10th Amendments until they mean little anymore and soon the rest will slowly disappear as well, with the 1st and 2nd also under the greatest jeopardy.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Most don't think of them as 'saints' but as good men who managed to put together some ideas and documents that lasted people from all cultures and levels of society for well over two centuries.

    Ben Franklin also said "A great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges". We can see that happening with the abuses of the 4th, 6th and 10th Amendments until they mean little anymore and soon the rest will slowly disappear as well, with the 1st and 2nd also under the greatest jeopardy.
    I doubt it. They got their ideas from the great thinkers of the Enlightenment, who had some awesome ideas and some that weren't so great. Ideas adapt or they die. The lionization of the guys is fine, the lionization of their ideas as still being the possible thoughts ever, two to three hundred years later is a bit silly.

    Anyway, as mentioned, even were you to subscribe to the original Franklin quote you shared, no two people will agree on exactly what is 'essential' and what is 'temporary' so the quote becomes nothing more than a nice turn of the phrase, that everyone would agree with in general but not in specific.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You think you know about data capacity? You don't know how many people work for the NSA or what their budget is, but someone told you something about zetabytes (sic, the word is zettabyte) and you believe it.
    *facepalm*

    "something about zetabytes and you believe it" ... as if it were real.... hint: IT IS A REAL... this is no goddammed conspiracy, the zettabyte is a real unit of measurement, a real multiple of the byte.

    1 ZB = 1,073,741,824 TB = 1,099,511,627,776 GB -> consumers have the capacity to store a small fraction of this amount of data.
    5 ZB = 5,368,709,120 TB = 5,497,558,138,880 GB -> consumers have the capacity to store an even small fraction of this amount of data.'

    Now, I am not gonna guess what the NSA could possibly want to do with almost 5.5 trillion gigabytes of storage space.

    Given some of the hypercompression algorithms that do exist - with the ability,albeit very slowly for the average consumer/the average computer - to compress a few GB to tens of MB [and given how those algorithms improve over time, and computers are getting both faster and more powerful over time], you could store a mind-blowing amount of data here [and hypercompression increases that amount significantly.

    Now I'm just curious curious - if you hypercompressed every piece of data going on 5 ZB worth of space as much as each piece of data could be compressed, how much data could be stored in that 5 ZB of space compared to uncompressed? I would imagine a ridiculous amount.
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 06-18-13 at 10:32 PM.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Well, that is the thing about jumping to conclusions. Sometimes the conclusions will be right.
    You're dealing with a knowitall here, supposed spy master. Step aside and marvel at his knowledge.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    *facepalm*

    "something about zetabytes and you believe it" ... as if it were real.... hint: IT IS A REAL... this is no goddammed conspiracy, the zettabyte is a real unit of measurement, a real multiple of the byte.
    No one said it wasn't?

    1 ZB = 1,073,741,824 TB = 1,099,511,627,776 GB -> consumers have the capacity to store a small fraction of this amount of data.
    5 ZB = 5,368,709,120 TB = 5,497,558,138,880 GB -> consumers have the capacity to store an even small fraction of this amount of data.
    lol. thanks? I'm Net+, Sec+, and A+ qualified, I think I knew that, but alright?

    Now, I am not gonna guess what the NSA could possibly want to do with almost 5.5 trillion gigabytes of storage space.
    Are you gonna guess as to why you think you know the NSA wants it to begin with? To reiterate, you don't know their budget or personnel strength, because it's classified, but you're presuming to believe a news report on how much hard drive space one of their facilities has?

    Given some of the hypercompression algorithms that do exist - with the ability,albeit very slowly for the average consumer/the average computer - to compress a few GB to tens of MB [and given how those algorithms improve over time, and computers are getting both faster and more powerful over time], you could store a mind-blowing amount of data here [and hypercompression increases that amount significantly.
    Okay, again I don't know why you presumed to think that that figure was any more true than anything else you might've heard.

    Now I'm just curious curious - if you hypercompressed every piece of data going on 5 ZB worth of space as much as each piece of data could be compressed, how much data could be stored in that 5 ZB of space compared to uncompressed? I would imagine a ridiculous amount.
    I'm curious- if you hypercompressed every piece of data going into a googleplex worth of space as much as each piece of data could be compressed, how much data could be stored in that googleplez of space compared to uncompressed? I would imagine a ridiculous amount.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Freedom and security are on opposite sides of the spectrum, I think you know that.
    Is there anything that says that we can't have both? I think it is a false choice being offered America now.

    Is the military corrupt?
    Seeing some of the military's leaders get in front of congress and openly equivocate, and in some cases outright lie, makes that case.

    The NSA falls under the DoD.
    I am aware of the structure.

    I don't think it's 'ever increasing'. For awhile in the 90s, technology far outpaced the government's ability to keep up with it. Now the government is catching up. That's the way it's always been.
    Do you think it is possible that we know the full extent of what the government has in terms of technology programs? Further, do you trust the government to always tell you the truth these days? I don't.

    I did think it was a good idea. I still do.
    I did too when it started. But, now I am realizing that different administrations can use that power in different ways, that may not be so benign.....
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Sure. But federal judges have. And you're unqualified in comparison.
    Duh, but rather irrelevant.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is there anything that says that we can't have both? I think it is a false choice being offered America now.
    I absolutely disagree. If you have absolute complete freedom to do anything you want, what type of protection (security) do I have from you beating the **** out of me? None. I just have to hope I can fight you off. If Microsoft had had complete freedom to expand in the ways and methods they wanted to in the mid 90s, what security would we have from them creating a monopoly and forcing us to pay whatever they wanted us to pay? None. All societies give up some manner of freedom for some security, going back for...hell, as long as there have been societies. Humans are prevented from acting in some ways in order to provide security for them.

    If this is too far towards security and away from freedom for your liking, that's fine, but the spectrum does exist.

    Seeing some of the military's leaders get in front of congress and openly equivocate, and in some cases outright lie, makes that case.
    If you're talking about lying to prevent classified answers from being given in an open meeting, I have no complaint with them doing that. I think most people in intelligence tell lies, either of omission or commission, on a daily basis. That goes part and parcel with doing something that not everyone can know about. Remember George Washington said that "“(U)pon Secrecy, Success depends in Most Enterprises…and for want of it, they are generally defeated.”

    Do you think it is possible that we know the full extent of what the government has in terms of technology programs? Further, do you trust the government to always tell you the truth these days? I don't.
    I don't see what that has to do with what I said, but I agree. The point is 'ever increasing' is misleading. The US used to open mail back in Washington's day (it's partially how they caught Benedict Arnold), now they're collecting cellphone metadata. Have things really been increasing that much?

    I did too when it started. But, now I am realizing that different administrations can use that power in different ways, that may not be so benign.....
    Maybe. That's all hypothetical.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Duh, but rather irrelevant.
    lol, I'm not sure you're in a state to decide what is irrelevant and what is not. To refresh your ailing memory:

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Been approved by all 3 branches, but flies in the face of the Fourth Amendment?
    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You're not more qualified than federal judges to interpret the constitution. I'm sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Compared to a person who has never read or studied the document, I am more qualified.

    Compared to any other layman (non lawyer) who has read and studied the document, I am ordinary, or maybe a cut above.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Sure. But federal judges have. And you're unqualified in comparison.
    You said something was clearly unconstitutional, I told you you weren't qualified enough to make that judgment- not compared to the people who've already deliberated on it and found your interpretation incorrect.

    Thankfully, you just agreed. With a 'duh', no less.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Duh, but rather irrelevant.
    Here's a little enlightenment.Who'd a thunk it, the same ol', same ol'
    Where Uncle Sam Ought to Be Snooping
    "But Americans have more on the surveillance front to worry about than overzealous government agents. Government personnel aren’t actually doing the snooping the 29-year-old Snowden revealed. NSA officials have contracted this snooping out — to private corporate contractors.

    These surveillance contracts, in turn, are making contractor executives exceedingly rich. And none have profited personally more than the power suits who run Booz Allen Hamilton and the private equity Carlyle Group.

    Whistle-blower Snowden did his snooping as a Booz Allen employee. Booz Allen, overall, has had tens of thousands of employees doing intelligence work for the federal government.

    Booz Allen alumni also populate the highest echelons of America’s intelligence apparatus — and vice versa. The Obama administration’s top intelligence official, James Clapper, just happens to be a former Booz Allen exec. The George W. Bush intelligence chief, John McConnell, now serves as the Booz Allen vice chair.

    All these revolving doors open up into enormously lucrative worlds. In their 2010 fiscal year, the top five Booz Allen execs together pocketed just under $20 million. They averaged 23 times what members of Congress take home.

    But the real windfalls are flowing to top execs at the Carlyle Group, Booz Allen’s parent company since 2008. In 2011, Carlyle’s top three power suits shared a combined payday over $400 million.

    More windfalls will be arriving soon. Carlyle paid $2.54 billion to buy up Booz Allen. Analysts are now expecting that Carlyle’s ultimate return on the acquisition will triple the private equity giant’s initial cash outlay.

    What do all these mega millions have to do with the massive surveillance that Edward Snowden has so dramatically exposed? Washington power players, from the President on down, are insisting that this surveillance has one and only one purpose: keeping Americans safe from terrorism."

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