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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Well, I admit that the complacency of the american people is responsible for very much of the bad karma we are experiencing right now. Yes, it could be the fault of the american people.

    But I am able to remember that nobody amongst "the people" were reaching out for patriot act like legislation. Seems to me it was foisted upon us, with 95% or more of congresscritters admitting that they did not read and did not debate said legislation.

    So, a fair argument could be made that the offending legislation was foisted upon us by our illustrious leaders in Congress. Those with just enough malfeasance in office to pass legislation without even reading it. And then to renew it every few years afterwards.
    Your objections are fair and honest. However, when terror rained down on Germany or Japan at the end of WW2, I'm willing to bet my shirt that nobody was standing around entertaining your argument. It's really as simple as that to understand but it's not simple to prevent it or change it. And so the movement to change it that we see in it's infancy is encouraging but it even lacks honesty. And that's why I see it coming to naught.

    It's dishonest because it's motivated from the right's perspective as opposing Obama. And of course, the mainstream right will win the day I suspect anyway and the tea party/libertarians will be sidelined. And as for the American left, I don't see any real motivation to call the propagandists on the obvious lies of Assad using chem/bio weapons. I hear them quickly crumbling on that notion and reverting to an argument that Assad has it coming anyway. I don't accept that but I would find it too tedious to argue.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    In a sense I agree, but I'll expand on what I meant. The people, the government, the country, are ALL one and the same. Each one influences, and is influenced by, the other two. None of the three exist in a vacuum. It's a three-legged chair.
    Actually, you could vaporize the federal gov't and life would pretty much go on the way it had before. Each state has it's own revenues, laws, constitution...
    It's not as though Canada would come charging across the border yelling "we claim montana in the name of the loon, what are you going to do abooot it?"

    Anyway, I disagree wholly that government is a part of the country and instead a function of the country. One of the founding principles was never trust your gov't. I have no intention of developing warm and fuzzy feelings for my gov't... it ruins the objectivity necessary for holding them accountable.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    To me, the People are the country, gov't is an unwanted but necessary appendage to organize interstate commerce and provide for our common defense.

    The individual colonies didn't want a country, they wanted to be on their own. Yet they all agreed England's tyranny was the greater evil, and so out of necessity, formed a nation.

    Power ascends from the people, to their local and state governments, then to federal... that it appears the other way around now is simply a clear illustration of how far off track we are.
    You're a smart guy. You're accepting the facts on the people being responsible because it's a futile effort to say otherwise. And of course, after the fact, if it comes in the form of a mushroom, etc. it won't matter a lot anyway on who's right.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    You're a smart guy. You're accepting the facts on the people being responsible because it's a futile effort to say otherwise. And of course, after the fact, if it comes in the form of a mushroom, etc. it won't matter a lot anyway on who's right.
    Am i the only one that didn't follow that?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Am i the only one that didn't follow that?

    I hope not! Anyway, I'm going to go right to the meat of the subject of politics and see if it can stand on this forum. Check it out now. There's nothing much that comes anywere near in importance in ME politics.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Actually, you could vaporize the federal gov't and life would pretty much go on the way it had before. Each state has it's own revenues, laws, constitution...
    It's not as though Canada would come charging across the border yelling "we claim montana in the name of the loon, what are you going to do abooot it?"

    Anyway, I disagree wholly that government is a part of the country and instead a function of the country. One of the founding principles was never trust your gov't. I have no intention of developing warm and fuzzy feelings for my gov't... it ruins the objectivity necessary for holding them accountable.
    Who said anything about trusting the government? Certainly not me. I also never said that the three interdependent aspects of people/government/country were necessarily something to be 'warm and fuzzy' about. You're misinterpreting my observation as some sort of approval, when in fact it could be negative just as easily as it could be positive.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Based on subsequent information that Snowden disclosed U.S. intelligence efforts directed at China and also British intelligence efforts, my guess is that Snowden's motivations have little or nothing to do with concern about domestic surveillance on U.S. citizens (a legitimate issue worthy of an adequate investigation). Instead, his motives increasingly appear to be anti-Western in nature, hence the disclosures concerning U.S. and British intelligence that have nothing to do with domestic surveillance.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Based on subsequent information that Snowden disclosed U.S. intelligence efforts directed at China and also British intelligence efforts, my guess is that Snowden's motivations have little or nothing to do with concern about domestic surveillance on U.S. citizens (a legitimate issue worthy of an adequate investigation). Instead, his motives increasingly appear to be anti-Western in nature, hence the disclosures concerning U.S. and British intelligence that have nothing to do with domestic surveillance.
    He's a serial failure in life and an attention seeker.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You didn't say that at first you were leaning in the camp of throwing the guy a parade?

    And yeah, I do care about damage being done, that's why I'm okay with the metadata collection: to prevent damage from being done. But before we can even get to that, people around here need to stop saying that what happened wasn't legal. It was. It is.
    Yeah, and I said I was waiting for more info. And then he started blabbing about other things and I changed my mind, guess you missed that post.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Yeah, and I said I was waiting for more info. And then he started blabbing about other things and I changed my mind, guess you missed that post.
    I saw where you said you weren't really positive anymore. That's where I said anyone with half a brain knew the guy was a loser from the beginning.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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