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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    more leaks, more scrubbed talking points

    yesterday: Leak report omits Panetta allegation - Austin Wright - POLITICO.com





    a rigorous internal review process, alright

    LOL!

    it all depends, apparently, on just who is gettin leaked on



    Obama only goes after leaks that don't benefit him - CBS News

    remember (bush holdover) robert gates' stfu policy?

    Secretary Gatesís STFU Policy - ABC News

    anyone?
    Good afternoon, Prof

    The more we hear about these scandals, the worse it gets! Our Security is compromised so BHO can look like a hero? Why? What game is this? :

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good afternoon, Prof

    The more we hear about these scandals, the worse it gets! Our Security is compromised so BHO can look like a hero? Why? What game is this? :
    If more Americans would stop and consider that your freedoms were confiscated long before Obama, they would be able to work their way through this thing with Snowden. Nothing is going to be gained for the US in hearing Snowden blow more cover but there could be lots to lose.

    Before the kneejerk reaction that goes along with the phony libertarian agenda of making people angry at Obama, they should have stopped and thought of the consequences of stopping security orgs from doing their jobs. Yet, Americans don't do that and continue to believe that their rights were secure before Snowden because that's what they're supposed to be thinking.

    Believe me, from a Canadian POV, you don't have near the rights that we have in countries where politics playing isn't the order of the day, every day. You've been enslaved to your system of crass and the irresponsible style of capitalism in so many ways.

    The highest per capita income in the world with the world's second highest income inequality?
    No affordable health care for millions of your own people?
    Losing your homes to extremist capitalist corruption?
    That's the kind of freedom America is all about?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    If more Americans would stop and consider that your freedoms were confiscated long before Obama, they would be able to work their way through this thing with Snowden. Nothing is going to be gained for the US in hearing Snowden blow more cover but there could be lots to lose.

    Before the kneejerk reaction that goes along with the phony libertarian agenda of making people angry at Obama, they should have stopped and thought of the consequences of stopping security orgs from doing their jobs. Yet, Americans don't do that and continue to believe that their rights were secure before Snowden because that's what they're supposed to be thinking.

    Believe me, from a Canadian POV, you don't have near the rights that we have in countries where politics playing isn't the order of the day, every day. You've been enslaved to your system of crass and the irresponsible style of capitalism in so many ways.

    The highest per capita income in the world with the world's second highest income inequality?
    No affordable health care for millions of your own people?
    Losing your homes to extremist capitalist corruption?
    That's the kind of freedom America is all about?
    excellent post!

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    excellent post!
    Thanks!

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Believe me
    link?

    LOL!

    the nyt doesn't believe obama

    NYT: Obama admin 'has lost all credibility'

    meanwhile:

    The Dirty Secrets of Washington Elites - NationalJournal.com

    hardly a neocon, the elite natl journal's ron fournier offers as premise: "at a time when americans have little faith in us political and media institutions, it's not sufficient to say trust us"

    "secrecy sows doubt and paranoia"

    "surely it's possible to start an open and honest conversation about drone warfare, domestic surveillance, and big data in general terms that don't expose cherished sources and methods"

    how does fournier know?

    "it's done all the time"

    bush sold "bad" intelligence to get us into iraq, obama outed the seals who got ubl (defense secty robt gates said stfu), the admin sourced the kill list, the stuxnet virus, the underwear bomber...

    Obama only goes after leaks that don't benefit him - CBS News

    "it's done all the time, usually when transparency suits the white house's political agenda"

    and there's "the orwellian habit:"

    "virtually every unauthorized leak, including the most recent ones about the prying eyes and ears at the nsa, is followed by the release of classified information (an authorized leak) that supports the administration's case against leaks"

    fournier, career dc bureau chief for ap and regular msnbc contributor, concludes:

    The Bush administration, Obama said in 2007, "puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand."

    Telling Americans they need to be treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed BS) or exposed to greater threats is Obama's false choice. The president and his fellow Washington elites need to start treating Americans like grown-ups.
    are YOU a mushroom?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    it's all about trust

    wap'so karen tumulty monday:

    Surveillance, IRS, media controversies fuel angst on left and right - The Washington Post

    A late-spring storm of Washington controversies has created a rare event in these partisan, polarized times: a shared I-told-you-so moment for the left and the right.

    For anyone worried about the potential for government overreach, the past few weeks have brought more cause for concern.

    The Internal Revenue Service targeting conservative groups for special scrutiny. The Justice Department subpoenaing the records of media organizations in a search-and-destroy mission against their sources of information. The National Security Agency sweeping up phone records and secretly tapping into the Internet services that have become the nervous system of 21st-century life.

    All raise questions that go beyond the ideological differences over the size and cost of government that have come to define the Democratic and Republican parties.

    That explains why the newly revealed leaker of classified information about government surveillance, 29-year-old tech specialist Edward Snowden, has been hailed as a “hero” by figures as diverse as conservative commentator Glenn Beck, liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and Daniel Ellsberg of Pentagon Papers fame.

    And the scandals — or pseudo-scandals, depending on one’s point of view — land at a time when polls show the public’s trust in the federal government is at or near all-time lows.

    “All of those things fit together as almost a patchwork quilt of too much, too far and too intrusive,” Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart said. “It’s not bringing people together. It’s uniting in outrage.”
    it's thru the looking glass, says the post

    david corn (of 47% fame) calls it kafka

    constitutional law prof obama in 2008 railed against violations of the constitution, abuse of power, betrayals of civil liberties

    but that was before he "matured" and "expanded exponentially" the executive's powers to search

    so leahy of vermont and lee of utah are suddenly and eagerly working together

    hey, obama wanted bipartisanship...

    dick durbin, citing rand paul, says "libertarians meet the left"

    only united in opposition to what obama is doing

    tumulty recalls paul's filibuster to stop holder from:

    Eric Holder: Drone Strike To Kill U.S. Citizen On American Soil Legal - HuffPo

    who needs a warrant? especially when you're the most transparent president of all time?

    the kill list which paul protested was one of those stragetic leaks to the nytimes that came FROM white house staff

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-215_162-...t-benefit-him/

    paul's 13 hour speech elicited a million tweets, half with the hash tag "standwithrand"

    uber lib ron wyden is one of paul's most privileged pals

    tumulty cites a cnn poll conducted after boston: 61% are more concerned about civil liberties than 31% who lean towards security

    durbin, the whip, is surprised

    “the poll was done after boston, when you would have thought that would have colored the answer, and it didn’t"

    grover norquist (ugh) sees a coalition: the aggrieved now include tea party activists who believe they were unfairly singled out by the irs, liberals who expected obama to exercise more restraint, and the news media fearful of a chilling effect on the flow of vital information

    “it’s easier for both teams to say those are powers no one should have,” goes grover, "it gored the right, it gored the left, and it gored the judge---the press”

    stay tuned

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    cnn tuesday:

    Second term mostly drama for Obama - CNN.com

    Less than five months in, Obama and his administration appear knocked off balance by a barrage of controversies and criticisms exacerbating the bitter political battles that marked his first four years in office.

    He's under fire from the right and left, accused by some ofconspiratorial machinations to grab even more powerthan the leader of the free world legally holds.

    Headlines are dominated by scandals such as the Internal Revenue Service targeting of conservative groups and classified leaks that disclosed details of the vast data mining and surveillance apparatus created after the 2001 terrorist attacks.

    Meanwhile,Republicans and some Democrats say his attorney general should resign over various issues including secret subpoenas of journalist phone records.
    Even the first lady got heckled -- at a Democratic fundraiser, no less. While the issue was gay rights, the incident showed how Obama supporters also were frustrated by what they consider to be a lack of sufficient progress on progressive issues they expect the president to champion.

    To columnist and CNN contributor John Avlon, the latest Washington scandals "have put the president off balance," withthe administration on defense instead of driving the agenda.

    "The choice will be in how the administration tries to deal with it," Avlon said. "If it's in denial and acts like these events are occurring outside its purview or control, that will be a big problem."

    "This is a president now who's dealing with issues he never thought he was going to have to deal with," [CNN senior analyst Gloria] Borger said Monday, referring to drone strikes, government surveillance and classified leaks.

    Avlon and Borger agreed that Obama must be proactive in dealing with the newly revealed details about how the government has access to phone records and Internet activity as tools in fighting terrorism.
    instead, according to cnn, the president is telling us to "trust him"

    "no one is listening to your phone calls"

    however, when bush did less, the president platformed against this "false choice"

    "you can't have 100% security and 100% privacy," he says today

    nsa activities are merely "minor encroachments"

    cnn chief national correspondent john king: "if the president doesn't try to get ahead of it, guess what, he'll get dragged along with it"

    all of the above complicate immigration reform, continues cnn

    and syria

    (as well as anything else the president contemplates, like guns, gay marriage, tax reform...)

    when's the last time he griped about sequester, whatever happened to green investment?

    and then there's the trouble at foggy bottom (the state dept), which has been rocked by cbs' scoop saying inspector general aurelia fedenisn found 8 crimes committed by state employees (including the belgian ambassador's soliciting minors for sex) which were COVERED UP by the heavy hitters on the top floor of the building

    as well as the doj, where eric holder told congress on may 15 that he was not aware of even "potential" prosecution of press participants

    huffpo, wapo and the natl journal have all called for the ignorant (according to holder) ag to resign

    it all comes down to trust

    as in, few anymore have any in this white house

    the nyt editorialized after the nsa broke, "obama has lost all credibility"

    this aint watergate, the ex sycophants at cnn conclude

    but remember john avlon's warning at the top: "if the administration is in denial and acts like these events are occurring outside its purview or control, that will be a big problem"

    obama's matured, but has he come clean?

    stay tuned

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    I've got a million of them spanning a hundred years before and after the DoI
    Did you just quote two opinions? Cool.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Snowden is this generation's Daniel Ellsberg, and I thank him for it. Him and Bradley both.
    He is. But that's bad, dude.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    last nite:

    The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls.

    Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

    If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

    Not only does this disclosure shed more light on how the NSA's formidable eavesdropping apparatus works domestically, it also suggests the Justice Department has secretly interpreted federal surveillance law to permit thousands of low-ranking analysts to eavesdrop on phone calls.

    Because the same legal standards that apply to phone calls also apply to e-mail messages, text messages, and instant messages, Nadler's disclosure indicates the NSA analysts could also access the contents of Internet communications without going before a court and seeking approval.

    The disclosure appears to confirm some of the allegations made by Edward Snowden, a former NSA infrastructure analyst who leaked classified documents to the Guardian.

    There are serious "constitutional problems" with this approach, said Kurt Opsahl, a senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation who has litigated warrantless wiretapping cases. "It epitomizes the problem of secret laws."

    A Wired magazine article last year disclosed that the NSA has established "listening posts" that allow the agency to collect and sift through billions of phone calls through a massive new data center in Utah, "whether they originate within the country or overseas." That includes not just metadata, but also the contents of the communications.

    A requirement of the 2008 law is that the NSA "may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States."

    Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU's Center for Democracy, says he was surprised to see the 2008 FISA Amendments Act be used to vacuum up information on American citizens. "Everyone who voted for the statute thought it was about international communications," he said.
    NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants | Politics and Law - CNET News

    nadler's disclosure that nsa analysts can listen to calls without court orders came after a house judiciary hearing thursday which talked to fbi director robt mueller

    mueller tried to downplay concerns about nsa spying by claiming that in order to listen to a phone call the nsa would first need to seek "a special, a particularized order from the fisa court directed at that particular phone of that particular individual"

    "then I can say the following," nadler responded, "we heard precisely the opposite at the briefing the other day, we heard precisely that you could get the specific information from that telephone simply based on an analyst deciding that"

    "in other words, what you just said is incorrect, so there's a conflict"

    difi (senator feinstein), one of the nsa's most notable defenders, "separately acknowledged this week that the agency's analysts have the ability to access the content of a call"

    the nsa's "billions of bulk communications being intercepted, analyzed, and incorporated into a database can be accessed by an analyst who's part of the nsa's workforce of thousands of people who are trained annually in minimization procedures" (according to odni michael mcconnell)

    "if it were a us person inside the united states, now that would stimulate the system to get a warrant," mcconnell testified, "and that is how the process would work"

    "now, if you have foreign intelligence data you publish it, because it has foreign intelligence value," concluded obama's odni

    mcconnell also said that he believed the president had the constitutional authority, "no matter what the law actually says," to order domestic spying without warrants

    former fbi counterterrorism agent tim clemente appeared on cnn in may and spoke about the same broad listening capabilities

    william binney, 30 year nsa technical director, has been all over the place saying the same thing (linked above)

    "a nyt article in 2009 revealed the nsa engaged in significant and systemic overcollection of americans' domestic communications that alarmed intelligence officials"

    the doj responded to the times story way back then assuring all concerned the dept "took comprehensive steps to correct the situation and bring the program into compliance with the law"

    the eef, electronic frontier foundation, by the way, is the party which is trying thru foia to force the doj to release that 86 page report by the fisa judge which finds the nsa's actions "unreasonable under the fourth amendment"

    stay tuned
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-16-13 at 12:09 PM.

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