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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Yes, I will be able to stay consistent on my opinion of both men, though I have met neither. Usually I know good men when I see them, even from a distance, through the media.

    Well I do oppose Obama, just as I opposed Bush before him. And though I voted against Jimmy Carter, once he got in office I greatly admired him.

    Yeah, I saw the pictures of the rallies for Snowden in Hong Kong. People carrying signs saying "Prosecute Obama, let Snowden go" or something like that. The US is the laughing stock of the world, at the same time the world's 800 pound gorilla in the room.

    Sad really, I had hoped for better government.

    Them and Daniel Ellsberg, Ehren Watada, and quite a few others in minor roles that seldom make the news. I'm no Obama fan, Michael. Prematurely categorizing people can backfire.
    Good comments! No, I never did suspect that you were an Obama fan. You call yourself a libertarian and that would apparently be inconsistent with your agenda. Just apparently, not in actuality in my opinion, but that's a long hard subject to get into.

    I'm not sure your exactly right on the US being the laugh of the world though. I myself don't see it that way as I realize that the US needs to spy on it's own people in order to protect it's interests. And I've already stated the reasons for which I believe that to be true. This is of course the point at which my agenda doesn't mesh with the libertarian agenda. In my opinion, your agenda is an honest one but it tends to not take into account the necessary realities of national security. And then besides that, it's a great hot button issue for Rand Paul who will do anything it takes to bring his fringe element along with him. Sadly, for him, it's only a fringe but he probably knows that as well as his father. It's going to be enough to keep him in office and that's the important part.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    Good comments! No, I never did suspect that you were an Obama fan. You call yourself a libertarian and that would apparently be inconsistent with your agenda. Just apparently, not in actuality in my opinion, but that's a long hard subject to get into.

    I'm not sure your exactly right on the US being the laugh of the world though. I myself don't see it that way as I realize that the US needs to spy on it's own people in order to protect it's interests. And I've already stated the reasons for which I believe that to be true. This is of course the point at which my agenda doesn't mesh with the libertarian agenda. In my opinion, your agenda is an honest one but it tends to not take into account the necessary realities of national security. And then besides that, it's a great hot button issue for Rand Paul who will do anything it takes to bring his fringe element along with him. Sadly, for him, it's only a fringe but he probably knows that as well as his father. It's going to be enough to keep him in office and that's the important part.
    I have the occasional need for speed on a motorcycle, and I'm no fraidy cat. I never bought into the fear-mongering that came later, though I was traumatized by the events of 11 September. The government can't protect me from anything, and I've know that for decades. As we've given away all our constitutional rights because we're scared silly, just as Congress was when it passed the Unpatriot Act, government could not protect those folks who lived in Black Forest.

    I do understand your suspicions about Rand Paul. Though I greatly admired his father, I'm not yet sure about the son.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    It's a question that is too much of a populist hot button issue for people to understand and think about before they jump to conclusions. It's shallow and kneejerk to react so strongly against the government on this issue.

    To understand what I have said you will need to understand how you can't challenge a motherhood issue, and indeed understand what a motherhood issue even is. But I am challenging it even though it's like challenging motherhood.

    And so, in order to ever find out if I'm right on this you will have to wait perhaps a long time and then it won't even be satisfactorily answered. You see, if the terrorists were successful in detonating a nuclear device in one of America's big cities, the question would still not be answered. It would only be suspected that your NSA and other agencies that are charged with protecting your country have not been serving their intended purpose. That purpose is to keep America safe.

    And so, you can have it any way you want it, it's a decision for Americans. Only be completely aware of the choices you choose. You can tie the hands of your anti-terrorist government agencies all you like but you have to do it in an honest way and that can't be only in the interest of bucking everything a black president does.

    It's not an enviable position your country has put your fellow Americans into. But it 'is' the position now and there's nothing that can totally reverse it. You could only attempt to begin to reverse it. And that doesn't seem to be on the agenda of any American except perhaps Obama. Publicly at least, but not even publicly spoken by Obama simply because it wouldn't be politically correct to do so.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I have the occasional need for speed on a motorcycle, and I'm no fraidy cat. I never bought into the fear-mongering that came later, though I was traumatized by the events of 11 September. The government can't protect me from anything, and I've know that for decades. As we've given away all our constitutional rights because we're scared silly, just as Congress was when it passed the Unpatriot Act, government could not protect those folks who lived in Black Forest.

    I do understand your suspicions about Rand Paul. Though I greatly admired his father, I'm not yet sure about the son.
    I agree completely with this (couldn't rep you for some reason).

    Even the last part.

    I greatly admire Ron Paul.

    Not sure about the son yet.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I agree completely with this.

    Even the last part.

    I greatly admire Ron Paul.

    Not sure about the son yet.
    But the American people didn't admire Ron Paul in sufficienct numbers and that is because they didn't buy into the kneejerk politics. they knew that protecting their country was always going to trump Ron Paul and his freedom ideologies. The only thing he 'did' get right is the fact that more revenge attacks were coming if American foreign policy continued in the same vein.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    you can't challenge a motherhood issue
    LOL!

    link?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee blasted the Obama administration in the wake of news that officials secretly obtained records for Verizon phone calls made in the United States, and called for hearings into the program.

    “We believe this type of program is far too broad and is inconsistent with our nation’s founding principles,” said a joint statement from prominent Democrats on the committee, including ranking member Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.). “We cannot defeat terrorism by compromising our commitment to our civil rights and liberties.”

    The letter was also signed by Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), ranking member of the Constitution and Civil Justice Subcommittee, and Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Va.) ranking member of the Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations subpanel.

    “We strongly disagree with those who would assert that because this type of program appears to be long standing and Members of Congress may have been briefed, that it is acceptable to us or the Congress,” the group wrote.

    “A classified briefing which does not permit any public discussion does not imply approval or acceptance,” they added.

    Democrats on Thursday fired off most of the criticism against the program.

    Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin said he has been briefed on some of the information generally previously and “of course” he is troubled by it.

    “We’ve been unable to speak to it because it is classified,” Durbin said.

    “To say that every American’s records of phone conversations are now open to government scrutiny really goes to beyond that standard,” Durbin said.

    “This type of secret bulk data collection is an outrageous breach of Americans’ privacy. I have had significant concerns about the intelligence community over-collecting information about Americans’ telephone calls, emails, and other records,” Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) said in a statement.

    Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) said the report “concerns me.”

    “The administration I think owes it to the American public to comment on what authorities it thinks it has and I’ll leave it there,” he told reporters Thursday.
    Key House Democrats want hearings on NSA - Ginger Gibson and Burgess Everett - POLITICO.com

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    if not snowden, who?

    congress?

    “I can assure you the phone number tracking of non-criminal, non-terrorist suspects was not discussed [at the administration's classified briefings],” said [Congressman Aaron] Schock. “Most members have stopped going to their classified briefings because they rarely tell us anything we don’t already know in the news. It really has become a charade.”
    Lawmakers rebut Obama's data defense - Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com

    "By the way,” [Senator Jeff] Merkley continued. “When I sought information [on the phone surveillance program], the only information I got was that, yes there is a program sweeping up broad amounts of data through the records act. This second thing, which we just learned about, called PRISM, I had no idea about.”
    Dem. Senator disputes Obama's claims that Congress was briefed - The Hill

    The only lawmakers who knew about PRISM were bound by oaths of office to hold their tongues.
    U.S. is spying on Web servers - Philly.com

    the judiciary?

    US government invokes special privilege to stop scrutiny of data mining | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones

    corn calls it kafka, fournier (you don't know the editor of the elite natl journal and longtime associated press bureau chief, regular msnbc contributor---you're too busy clicking and entering your narcissistic, unsubstantiated opinions and self fondling fantasies about the way things should be...) likes alice

    meanwhile, on earth all the adults are talking about orwell

    stay tuned
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-15-13 at 06:11 PM.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    more leaks, more scrubbed talking points

    yesterday: Leak report omits Panetta allegation - Austin Wright - POLITICO.com

    The official version of a Pentagon report about its dealings with Hollywood over the making of “Zero Dark Thirty” omits allegations included in an earlier leaked copy, which alleged then-CIA Director Leon Panetta revealed classified information.

    The Defense Department’s final version of the document appeared Friday, but in an earlier draft, which was published last week by the Project on Government Oversight, Panetta was accused of discussing classified information at a 2011 CIA event attended by the film’s screenwriter.

    Bridget Ann Serchak, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon’s inspector general, said issues related to Panetta were referred to the CIA’s IG.

    “As with any IG work product, the working draft was edited and revised during a rigorous internal review process,” Serchak said in a statement to POLITICO. “No third parties, to include anyone from the Office of the Secretary of Defense or the Executive Office of the President, attempted to influence the content of the report or its release date.”

    The final version of the IG’s report references the CIA event but omits a paragraph in the draft version that said Panetta “specifically recognized the unit that conducted the [Osama bin Laden] raid and identified the ground commander by name.” That information was protected from public release, according to the draft report, and amounted to divulging a secret.

    The final report released Friday also makes clear there was resistance within the Pentagon to providing access to the makers of “Zero Dark Thirty.” Director Kathryn Bigelow and screenwriter Mark Boal did not formally request the Defense Department’s support for the film but did meet with military officials as part of their research.

    The report quotes “DoD’s director of entertainment media” — Philip Strub — as saying he wasn’t eager to deal with the two filmmakers because of their portrayal of the military in a previous film, “The Hurt Locker,” but was overruled by higher-ups.

    “I wasn’t given the choice of whether to authorize it or not,” he said, according to the final report. “I mean, these senior people do whatever they want.”

    In a 2011 email, then-Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs Doug Wilson told Boal, “If you have any problems with [Strub] on any of this, come to me.”

    Later, Wilson emailed Boal that he and other top Pentagon officials would “work to unclog the SOCOM pathway for you,” referring to U.S. Special Operations Command. Boal wanted to interview Navy SEALs as part of his research, but Special Operations Command officials had expressed reservations about making people available.

    Investigators began looking into the Pentagon’s relationship with the “Zero Dark Thirty” filmmakers after a New York Times columnist wrote that Obama administration officials hoped the movie, then expected for release around the time of the 2012 elections, would portray the president in a heroic light and help him at the polls.
    a rigorous internal review process, alright

    LOL!

    it all depends, apparently, on just who is gettin leaked on

    Obama only goes after leaks that don't benefit him - CBS News

    remember (bush holdover) robert gates' stfu policy?

    Secretary Gates’s STFU Policy - ABC News

    anyone?
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-15-13 at 06:33 PM.

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