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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

    You have forsaken the oath you took when you enlisted. You openly acknowledge the Constitution is a "means to and end." You are sworn, first and foremost, to protect the Constitution (and the rights contained within). You should be retroactively discharged for dereliction of duty. Good day, and gg.
    Nah, I have a clearance and still work for them. The constitution isn't a holy document, get over it dude.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Oh I beleive him far more than I beleive anyone in the Obama administration.

    First off, if you read article 215 in the Patriot Act it clearly spells out the limitations of what the NSA can do.

    Lets see, the Obama administration is in the middle of a scandal where they sic'ed the IRS on their political opponents and on any American who chose to organize a grass roots Conservative PAC.

    Only ideologues and idiots believe anything that comes out of Obama's mouth.
    Only ideologues and idiots believe anything out of the mouth of ANY politician, though there are a few exceptions.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Nah, I have a clearance and still work for them. The constitution isn't a holy document, get over it dude.
    No one care about your cynical attitude. Apparent you either didn't take an oath, or don't give a **** about it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No one care about your cynical attitude. Apparent you either didn't take an oath, or don't give a **** about it.
    You care while your metadata is being legally collected, lol.

    How's that hero of yours Snowden doing?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    clapper swears the nsa got zazi and headley

    he's lying again

    why can't the nsa name one case where prism and boundless made a difference?

    why is the nsa reduced to false triumphs?

    Senators challenge NSA's claim to have foiled 'dozens' of terror attacks | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Two prominent Senate critics of the NSA's dragnet surveillance have challenged the agency's assertion that the spy efforts helped stop "dozens" of terror attacks.

    Mark Udall and Ron Wyden, both members of the Senate intelligence committee, said they were not convinced by the testimony of the NSA director, General Keith Alexander, on Capitol Hill on Wednesday, who claimed that evidence gleaned from surveillance helped thwart attacks in the US.

    "We have not yet seen any evidence showing that the NSA's dragnet collection of Americans' phone records has produced any uniquely valuable intelligence," they said in a statement released on Thursday ahead of a widely anticipated briefing for US senators about the National Security Agency's activities.

    "When you're talking about important liberties that the American people feel strongly about, and you want to have an intelligence program, you've got to make a case for why it provides unique value to the [intelligence] community atop what they can already have," Wyden, an Oregon Democrat, told the Guardian in an interview on Thursday.

    Alexander testified before the Senate appropriations committee that maintaining a database of millions of Americans' phone records was critical to thwarting "dozens" of plots. One of the examples Alexander mentioned, the case of would-be New York subway bomber Najibullah Zazi, appears to have been prevented by conventional police surveillance, including efforts by UK investigators.

    "Gen Alexander's testimony yesterday suggested that the NSA's bulk phone records collection program helped thwart 'dozens' of terrorist attacks, but all of the plots that he mentioned appear to have been identified using other collection methods," Wyden and Udall said in a statement. "The public deserves a clear explanation."

    "I have real reservations that the argument that they can't be evaluated separately," Wyden said. "If a program provides unique value, the people running it ought to explain it. I'm certainly open to doing that in a classified setting, and I know of a program where they haven't done it."

    Wyden said he could not elaborate on what that program is, citing its classified nature.

    "If they claim that this program has lots of safeguards, wouldn't you expect they would detail them – 'Here are the procedures for following up on an individual'?" Wyden said. "This is certainly an issue I have a strong interest in."
    wyden and udall outlined their objections and inquiries after alexander's closed door, confidential briefing yesterday

    alexander's the guy who lied (14 times) to hank johnson in sworn testimony in march, 2012 (multiple links above)

    it was a series of statements by alexander which wyden knew were wrong ("the story we have millions or hundreds of thousands of dossiers on people is absolutely false," the nsa was only collecting data from "bad guys") that prompted wyden to confront clapper this march, producing those now famous prevarications

    "not wittingly" was the "least untruthful answer" clapper could afford

    "this was started by general alexander's comment in a public forum, that's why i think now we're going to have some pubic hearings," says the uber lib from oregon

    jeff i-never-heard-of-prism merkley is speaking out in support of his 4th amendment amigos

    wyden: the public deserves a clear explanation

    don't YOU?

    obama wants an open debate

    don't YOU?

    either way, here we go
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-14-13 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It has nothing to do with what I think should be illegal or not. Fact of the matter is that in order to issue ANY warrant the 4th Amendment states that there must be probable cause.

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


    Again, I challenge you and anyone else to show me the probable cause for searching my phone records. (I am a verizon customer and have been since before 9/11)
    The Fourth Amendment was being ignored and is now destroyed. All we need do is look at those lineups of people being searched at airports where next to no probable cause exists. Other Amendments are certainly in jeopardy as well.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Man, does Washington assume the masses (and their representatives) are IDIOTS.

    These surveillance techniques saved terrorist attacks?

    Whatever.

    Any idiot can claim something he knows that he never has to prove.


    And there comes a point, IMO, where too much intrusion is no longer worth it...no matter how proven the techniques.


    There is NO WAY to be completely safe from terrorist attacks.

    And so long as America runs around the world, bombing innocent people and propping up horrible regimes (like Saudi Arabia) - I expect that more Americans will be killed by terrorists.

    That is the price you pay for having such a pathetic foreign policy.


    But I am not prepared to give up my freedoms for that security.

    And if that means a greater risk of attack...so be it.


    Liberty and Freedom should NEVER be compromised out of fear...or the terrorists win without firing a shot.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    nyt tuesday: making alberto gonzales look good

    Making Alberto Gonzales Look Good, Did James Clapper Lie to Ron Wyden? - NYTimes.com

    Government officials employ various tactics to avoid actually saying anything at intelligence hearings, mostly by fogging up the room with references to national security and with vague generalities. It’s part of a dance, which the public and the media may grumble about but which we also expect.

    Outright lying is another matter.

    On March 12, James Clapper, director of national intelligence, testified at an open congressional hearing. Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, asked him whether the National Security Agency collects “any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.”

    His answer: “No sir.” Then he added: “Not wittingly.”

    It was a lie, as everyone now knows from the articles about the N.S.A.’s data-mining program.

    Mr. Wyden knew it wasn’t true at the time, since he is on the Senate Intelligence Committee and is privy to secret briefings from people like, well, Mr. Clapper.

    On Sunday, NBC’s Andrea Mitchell asked Mr. Clapper about the exchange.

    “First, I have great respect for Senator Wyden,” Mr. Clapper said, using a Washington code phrase to indicate that he has no respect for the senator. “I thought, though in retrospect, I was asked ‘when are you going to start–stop beating your wife’ kind of question, which is, meaning not answerable necessarily, by a simple yes or no. So I responded in what I thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner, by saying, ‘No.’”

    Mr. Clapper further explained his least-untruthiness by saying he thought Mr. Wyden was asking whether the N.S.A. was actually listening to phone conversations (which Mr. Wyden clearly was not). “Going back to my metaphor, what I was thinking of is looking at the Dewey Decimal numbers of those books in the metaphorical library,” he said. “To me collection of U.S. persons data would mean taking the books off the shelf, opening it up and reading it.”

    Senator Dianne Feinstein defended Mr. Clapper, saying “you can misunderstand the question.” But what’s so muddy about “any type of data at all"? Besides, Mr. Wyden said in a statement on Tuesday that he actually sent the question to Mr. Clapper’s office a day in advance, and even gave him a chance to amend his answer. He had plenty of time to consider what, precisely, Mr. Wyden wanted to know.
    at least gonzales, notes nyt, stuck to the fog and vague generalities

    when asked the same question in 06, the glib ag dodged, "classified"

    "you have to wonder about giving a position of vast responsibility to someone who can beat mr gonzales in dishonesty," concludes the lady

    slate says clapper should be fired

    "mr clapper’s participation in any public discussion of the limits of data mining will be of no value, since we are going to have to parse his meanings of complex words like yes and no"

    how bout alexander (who fibbed to hank johnson 14 times)?

    a week ago the lady's ed board found "lame" the white house rationalization that only phone numbers and not users' names were being bundled by boundless (do you disagree?)

    NYT: Obama admin has lost all credibility
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-14-13 at 05:26 PM.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Man, does Washington assume the masses (and their representatives) are IDIOTS.
    Yes.




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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    wapo's chris cillizza, chrissy matthews' favorite:

    Who had the worst week in Washington? National intelligence chief James Clapper. - The Washington Post

    clapper told andrea mitchell his unwitting answer "was not technically a lie because of a semantic difference in the intelligence community about what the word 'collect' means"

    cillizza:

    “Least untruthful manner” is not only our favorite piece of Washington doublespeak uttered this year — it also joins “no controlling legal authority” and “it depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is” in the pantheon of political parsing.

    James Clapper, for speaking in the least believable manner, you had the worst week in Washington.
    do you disagree?

    why can't the white house point to one case broken by prism and/or boundless?

    why resort to false examples, zazi and headley?

    stay tuned

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