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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And this is where you have failed. When a person starts attacking another persons spelling then it is a sure sign that they have no actual truthful arguement.

    Because of this I think I have drummed you enough. Cya!
    I thought it was when I proved that you didn't know how the American government worked, how laws are made, how they're stricken down, and how things are shown to be legal or illegal. Are you sure you're a judge?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Really? Those federal judges just need more education from His Honorable Kal'Stang from www.debatepolitics.com huh? Those federal judges who oversaw this and ruled on its behalf must need to go to your Bonners Ferry law school, I guess.



    Ummm....sure? If a judge found it to be legal, guess what? It would be legal. Do you even know what legal means? There seems to be a huge group of you here that think "illegal" just means "I don't like it" and "legal" means "I like it". Honestly, do you know what legal and illegal mean? Christ.
    Judge's decisions are wrong and overturned y higher courts routinely. If the losing side of a decision has a reasonable good case, they can go to an appeals court and have enforcement of the first decision stayed until their appeal is held. Until the Supreme Court either decides to not hear a case (thereby upholding a prior decision by taking no action) or renders a decision, a judge's
    decision is not the final word as long as their is an appeal process.

    With the FISA process, the whole process is secret, so appeals are usually impossible, unless the information somehow comes out. But just because a a secret court decision is secret that does not mean that their decision is correct or final.

    Also, the fourth amendment is in plain English and is quite clear and specific. It was added by demand of the people at the time, not because it was supported by politicians. One doesn't have to be a lawyer or judge to know when it is being violated.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Judge's decisions are wrong and overturned y higher courts routinely. If the losing side of a decision has a reasonable good case, they can go to an appeals court and have enforcement of the first decision stayed until their appeal is held. Until the Supreme Court either decides to not hear a case (thereby upholding a prior decision by taking no action) or renders a decision, a judge's
    decision is not the final word as long as their is an appeal process.
    If there's not final word, why are all these people calling it illegal? Hmmm.

    With the FISA process, the whole process is secret, so appeals are usually impossible, unless the information somehow comes out. But just because a a secret court decision is secret that does not mean that their decision is correct or final.
    Nothing is ever final. Theft could be legal in 2050. I'm not going to call it legal now, though. Will you?

    Also, the fourth amendment is in plain English and is quite clear and specific. It was added by demand of the people at the time, not because it was supported by politicians. One doesn't have to be a lawyer or judge to know when it is being violated.
    Yes, actually they do, because 'probable cause' is subjective and we actually have people whose job it is to judge which is which. Their job is not to post on the internet without knowing what the purpose of the FISA court is.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post

    You just give opinions, do you understand? You give opinions to your friends and people on the internet. At no point to you dictate what is and isn't legal or constitutional. I'm sorry.
    All anyone does here is provide their opinions, including you. His opinion is at least as valid as yours. People who are arrogant and rude do not contribute to the discussion in a useful way.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    I don't know of any criteria that would indicate that Britain or Canada is freer than the USA. They both have restrictions on free speech and press that most Americans would not accept. AFAIK they don't have any freedoms that we don't have.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    All anyone does here is provide their opinions, including you. His opinion is at least as valid as yours. People who are arrogant and rude do not contribute to the discussion in a useful way.
    He's very rude and arrogant and I can definitely be a dick back (almost a decade in the army can do that) but no, his opinion is not as valid as mine. His opinion that it's 'illegal' is factually wrong. My opinion that it is legal is factually right. It can change in the future, just as anything can, but right now it's wrong, and that's not really a debate.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Sensebrenner is
    trying to walk it back. IMO he is a statist dirtbag for having authored it. It is perversely humorous to see him squirm. I don't believe a word he says.
    Oh I beleive him far more than I beleive anyone in the Obama administration.

    First off, if you read article 215 in the Patriot Act it clearly spells out the limitations of what the NSA can do.

    Lets see, the Obama administration is in the middle of a scandal where they sic'ed the IRS on their political opponents and on any American who chose to organize a grass roots Conservative PAC.

    Only ideologues and idiots believe anything that comes out of Obama's mouth.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I don't know of any criteria that would indicate that Britain or Canada is freer than the USA. They both have restrictions on free speech and press that most Americans would not accept. AFAIK they don't have any freedoms that we don't have.
    I don't know of anyone that said that. That wasn't the question. What is with you guys here changing the goalposts every other post? Look back at what he asked.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    And the law has not been found unconstitutional
    LOL!

    a law does not have to be overturned by the supremes to be held by the fisa court "unreasonable under the 4th amendment"

    you don't know what you're talking about

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    He's very rude and arrogant and I can definitely be a dick back (almost a decade in the army can do that) but no, his opinion is not as valid as mine.
    I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

    You have forsaken the oath you took when you enlisted. You openly acknowledge the Constitution is a "means to and end." You are sworn, first and foremost, to protect the Constitution (and the rights contained within). You should be retroactively discharged for dereliction of duty. Good day, and gg.

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