Page 44 of 76 FirstFirst ... 34424344454654 ... LastLast
Results 431 to 440 of 760

Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

  1. #431
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    no one's rights were violated
    "unreasonable under 4th amendment"

    link above

  2. #432
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,866
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Really? Those federal judges just need more education from His Honorable Kal'Stang from www.debatepolitics.com huh? Those federal judges who oversaw this and ruled on its behalf must need to go to your Bonners Ferry law school, I guess.
    Are you trying to claim that judges cannot break the law also? Really? You do know that those judges are PEOPLE right? Just as fallible as you or I. Are just as corruptable and prone to breaking the law.

    Btw, I didn't go to school in Bonners Ferry. I just live here. You have no idea what my background is.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Ummm....sure? If a judge found it to be legal, guess what? It would be legal. Do you even know what legal means? There seems to be a huge group of you here that think "illegal" just means "I don't like it" and "legal" means "I like it". Honestly, do you know what legal and illegal mean? Christ.
    Do you know what "legal" means? Whether something is legal or not is not dependent on any judge or any group of judges. Something either does not violate the law or it does. And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the Constitution and what the 4th Amendment says. You only need reading comprehension.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 06-13-13 at 07:18 PM.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  3. #433
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,866
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And no one's rights were violated. Again, there's a difference between what you think and what the law has decided. No one ever told you that? Just because you think something should be illegal doesn't mean it is. Is that really such a hard concept for you to grapple with? I honestly don't get this. I don't think marijuana should be illegal at all, but I don't go around saying "OMG it's illegal to fine people for smoking it! because that's just plain wrong and nonsensical.
    It has nothing to do with what I think should be illegal or not. Fact of the matter is that in order to issue ANY warrant the 4th Amendment states that there must be probable cause.

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


    Again, I challenge you and anyone else to show me the probable cause for searching my phone records. (I am a verizon customer and have been since before 9/11)
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  4. #434
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Are you trying to claim that judges cannot break the law also? Really?
    lol no. Did I say that? Or did you make that up?

    You do know that those judges are PEOPLE right? Just as fallible as you or I. Are just as corruptable and prone to breaking the law.
    Okay? What does that have to do with you saying that something is illegal that has not been declared illegal? Is this the United States of Kal'Stang now?

    What is your legal background anyway? How many of these judges made the same mistake that you are expertly avoiding, do you think?

    Btw, I didn't go to school in Bonners Ferry. I just live here. You have no idea what my background is.
    I assume a judge of some sort. Probably federal. Right?

    Do you know what "legal" means? Whether something is legal or not is not dependent on any judge or any group of judges. Something either does not violate the law or it does. And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the Constitution and what the 4th Amendment says. You only need reading comprehension.
    lol no, legal depends upon the legislative branch (Patriot Act, in this case) and then, when challenged, is either upheld by the judicial branch or isn't. When it comes to warrants, if a judge approves it, it's "legal". Did you know that, Your Honor? What you're talking about is whether something is constitutional or not, and unless you're Scalia or something, that's not within your purview either.

    You just give opinions, do you understand? You give opinions to your friends and people on the internet. At no point to you dictate what is and isn't legal or constitutional. I'm sorry.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #435
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It has nothing to do with what I think should be illegal or not. Fact of the matter is that in order to issue ANY warrant the 4th Amendment states that there must be probable cause.

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


    Again, I challenge you and anyone else to show me the probable cause for searching my phone records. (I am a verizon customer and have been since before 9/11)
    A FISA judge was presented with something that someone said was probable cause. The judge agreed, and several judges have agreed for almost a decade now. The probable cause is classified and no one would give you a clearance in the state you're in now, so you won't see it until it's declassified.

    That doesn't make anything illegal, though, sadly for you. You just don't like it. Keep in mind the difference.

    Hey, I have an idea! Why not sue them and take it to court! Then you can find out!
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  6. #436
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Least oppressive? Are you high?

    The US has been very middle of the road, no need to kid yourself. So you care more about the Constitution than you do the American people? Interesting. Not me.
    Not many countries, if any, were less oppressive until after WWII. If you think otherwise, tell me which countries are or were less oppressive.

    Not only that, our system has been able to evolve without as much instability and violence as most nations.

    The odds of a terrorist attack impacting any particular individual are extremely slim, even if we experienced as many attacks as a place like Israel. I'll take that one in a million or less risk over letting the government know who I'm calling and e-mailing.

  7. #437
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    You just give opinions
    LOL!

    In the midst of revelations that the government has conducted extensive top-secret surveillance operations to collect domestic phone records and internet communications, the Justice Department was due to file a court motion Friday in its effort to keep secret an 86-page court opinion that determined that the government had violated the spirit of federal surveillance laws and engaged in unconstitutional spying.

    On at least one occasion the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held that some collection carried out pursuant to the Section 702 minimization procedures used by the government was unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment.
    link above

  8. #438
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Not many countries, if any, were less oppressive until after WWII. If you think otherwise, tell me which countries are or were less oppressive.
    Britain. Canada. So it's clearly not just the constitution.

    Not only that, our system has been able to evolve without as much instability and violence as most nations.
    Again, why would you owe that to the constitution?

    The odds of a terrorist attack impacting any particular individual are extremely slim, even if we experienced as many attacks as a place like Israel. I'll take that one in a million or less risk over letting the government know who I'm calling and e-mailing.
    You're very right about it being extremely slim. I don't see why it matters, though, if it helps.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #439
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,866
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol no. Did I say that? Or did you make that up?
    By claiming that these judges did not violate the 4th amendment and that what they did was legal, yes, you are saying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Okay? What does that have to do with you saying that something is illegal that has not been declared illegal? Is this the United States of Kal'Stang now?
    The point was to show you that judges can make illegal decisions also. Or was that too hard to understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol no, legal depends upon the legislative branch (Patriot Act, in this case) and then, when challenged, is either upheld by the judicial branch or isn't. When it comes to warrants, if a judge approves it, it's "legal". Did you know that, Your Honor? What you're talking about is whether something is constitutional or not, and unless you're Scalia or something, that's not within your purview either.
    No, legal does not depend on the legislative branch after a law is made. And the Patriot Act cannot trump the 4th Amendment as the Patriot Act is not an Amendment to the Constitution. Parts of the Patriot Act have already been shot down due to those parts violating the 4th Amendment. That alone should be evidence enough to you that the 4th Amendment trumps the Patriot Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You just give opinions, do you understand? You give opinions to your friends and people on the internet. At no point to you dictate what is and isn't legal or constitutional. I'm sorry.
    Nope, I have given facts. None of which you have debunked yet.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #440
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    lol prof!
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

Page 44 of 76 FirstFirst ... 34424344454654 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •