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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Is the constitution a holy document to you or something? Cause I try not to get in arguments about what's good for the US with religious zealots, I've spent enough time around Salafists.
    The protections from government excesses in the Bill of Rights are at the heart of our system and have kept the USA one of the least oppressive nations for over two hundred years.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    My view remains that Mr. Snowden should have shared his concerns with Congress rather than releasing them to the media. The issues concerning surveillance are legitimate and should be examined by Congress.

    Subsequent developments appear to suggest that Snowden chose his route, possibly on account of perceived or actual grievances against the U.S. government with a desire to "punish" the U.S. Since he revealed the existence of the surveillance programs (telephony and PRISM), he also revealed that the U.S. has "hacked" Chinese interests. That such "hacking" occurs is not surprising, as it is something one would expect in the gathering of foreign intelligence for any major power where priority is given to the collection of military and strategic industrial information. That he disclosed it and the possible methodology involved suggests that his actions probably have much less to do with protecting the privacy of ordinary Americans and more to do with damaging U.S. interests. Almost certainly, that aspect will lead to his facing a tougher sentence should he be prosecuted and convicted than would otherwise have been the case.
    Consider the fate of Thomas Drake and a few other NSA whistleblowers who followed the rules and went up the chain of command. Drake writes about it today at Common Dreams.

    They followed the rules and were prosecuted. Sibel Edmonds' story is similar.

    Follow the rules and be demonized.

    Snowden did the right thing.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Is the constitution a holy document to you or something? Cause I try not to get in arguments about what's good for the US with religious zealots, I've spent enough time around Salafists.
    No, I'm not religious so it's not really a holy document.

    But I'm biased in its favor because I took an oath to defend it, back at Fort Bragg in 1969, so I have this sentimental view in favor of it.

    That there are so many like you who do not respect or understand the document and its principles is ONE of the reasons we are in such a mess today, 200+ years after it was adopted.

    The rule of law in governance is important, but I'm sure you disagree with that idea.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Whistle-blowing is revealing illegal acts. It's not about revealing top-secret information.
    According to Jim Sensenbrenner, the author of the Patriot Act, none of what the NSA is doing is allowed under article 215 of the Patriot Act.

    Therefore Obama took it upon himself to increase the scope of NSA targeting and data collection.

    I read a article today that Mosque have been off limits to FBI snooping since 2011 as honest everyday Americans have been targeted.

    You have to remember, this is the administration who allowed the targeting of Conwervatoves by the IRS.

    He has no credibillity left period.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    According to Jim Sensenbrenner, the author of the Patriot Act, none of what the NSA is doing is allowed under article 215 of the Patriot Act.

    Therefore Obamq took it upon himself to increase the scope of NSA targeting and data collection.

    You have to remember, this is the administration who allowed the targeting of Conwervatoves by the IRS.

    He has no credibillity left period.
    Sensebrenner is trying to walk it back. IMO he is a statist dirtbag for having authored it. It is perversely humorous to see him squirm. I don't believe a word he says.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Your second sentence partially redeems you, but a definition of "national security" is in order.

    As for your statement about Manning's anger about DADT, that is a peripheral issue only. Without having the transcript of his statement in court by my side, I do not recall that it was even mentioned in that statement to the court.

    He primary motivation was the same as Snowden's--a young man becoming greviously disillusioned by the reality of government crimes.
    I'm not going by what was said in a court room for the simple fact that in this case it was nothing more than prepared statements. I'm going by what he said before the courtroom which has a greater chance of being more honest than him trying to shimmy his way out of trouble, or at least less trouble.

    As for "national security", things like armament, troop deployment, and technology for the most part. Lets put it this way, my definition of "national security" would be FAR stricter than our current "leaders" definition of it.
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    My view remains that Mr. Snowden should have shared his concerns with Congress rather than releasing them to the media. The issues concerning surveillance are legitimate and should be examined by Congress.

    Subsequent developments appear to suggest that Snowden chose his route, possibly on account of perceived or actual grievances against the U.S. government with a desire to "punish" the U.S. Since he revealed the existence of the surveillance programs (telephony and PRISM), he also revealed that the U.S. has "hacked" Chinese interests. That such "hacking" occurs is not surprising, as it is something one would expect in the gathering of foreign intelligence for any major power where priority is given to the collection of military and strategic industrial information. That he disclosed it and the possible methodology involved suggests that his actions probably have much less to do with protecting the privacy of ordinary Americans and more to do with damaging U.S. interests. Almost certainly, that aspect will lead to his facing a tougher sentence should he be prosecuted and convicted than would otherwise have been the case.
    It would have been worthless to go to congress since the NSA also had congressional approval for this. The only way that they (congress) would have actually examined it is if it was forced to do so. And the only way to force Congress to do an investigation of any kind is by involving the media and citizens.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm not going by what was said in a court room for the simple fact that in this case it was nothing more than prepared statements. I'm going by what he said before the courtroom which has a greater chance of being more honest than him trying to shimmy his way out of trouble, or at least less trouble.

    As for "national security", things like armament, troop deployment, and technology for the most part. Lets put it this way, my definition of "national security" would be FAR stricter than our current "leaders" definition of it.
    I know it's rare, but sometimes the truth does come out in court proceedings.

    Keep in mind that Manning has pleaded guilty to all the charges except aiding the enemy. So with the exception of trying to avoid a life sentence, he's not trying weasel out of anything.

    He tried to get his story to NYT and WaPo, but it wasn't meant to be for reasons beyond his control. Wikileaks was the only option, and probably the correct option, all things considered.

    Exposing the crimes of government is never wrong.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Is the constitution a holy document to you or something? Cause I try not to get in arguments about what's good for the US with religious zealots, I've spent enough time around Salafists.
    No, its not a holy document. It is however The Highest Law of the United States of America. No law, edict, order or anything aside from an amendment passed by Congress can trump the Constitution.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Consider the fate of Thomas Drake and a few other NSA whistleblowers who followed the rules and went up the chain of command. Drake writes about it today at Common Dreams.

    They followed the rules and were prosecuted. Sibel Edmonds' story is similar.

    Follow the rules and be demonized.

    Snowden did the right thing.
    Revealing details about intelligence gathering that is separate from the surveillance issues and has nothing to do with surveillance of U.S. citizens is not the "right thing."

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