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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    From what I can tell there is a huge difference between Manning and Snowden. Manning leaked all of that information indiscriminately and did so for the sole purpose of hurting the US. Snowden actually leaked just enough information to let the public know that the people of this country are being investigated without good reason and no probable cause and did so with the intent to make America a better place. Snowden might not be a hero...but he sure as hell is not a criminal imo.
    By this post, you reveal an abysmal ignorance of Manning's motives. Those motives were revealed to the Court 2 months ago.

    Are americans too fearful and prejudiced to inform themselves?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    ??? That doesn't make sense logically at all.

    No Americans were being harmed by PRISM, but by disclosing that it exists, he decreases the level of protection afforded them, which harms them.
    Does it matter to you if the US Constitution was being harmed? Does it matter to you that long-held legal principles were being harmed? Do principles and law have any standing at all in today's Amerika?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yes, actually, it is. You can tell because everyone who actually knows what they are talking about thinks that it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    To say that things go hand in hand implies a unique and special relationship between the two. Yes, the government might do something illegal and label it top secret. It might also do something in another country and call it top secret. It might also have someone put a thumbdrive in a computer and call it Top Secret. Saying that illegal and top secret go hand in hand is thus no better than saying that thumb drives and Top Secret go hand in hand.
    Wrong. It does not imply, nor require, a special relationship between the two. It is simply something that is done often enough to be recognized as happening almost all the time. Now what happens if that thumb drive of yours gets plugged into that computer of yours (as a private citizen with no ties to the governemnt) without probable cause by the government and without your knowledge or permission? Was it done illegally? Yes. Was it done secretly? Yes. The government does this quite a bit. Can you honestly deny that?
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    By this post, you reveal an abysmal ignorance of Manning's motives. Those motives were revealed to the Court 2 months ago.

    Are americans too fearful and prejudiced to inform themselves?
    Manning revealed it himself when he claimed that he was upset at the government for not allowing him to openly admit that he was gay.

    And for whatever its worth, I have no problem with the fact that those documents were released. I believe in full transparency of the government in all but national security issues.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Manning revealed it himself when he claimed that he was upset at the government for not allowing him to openly admit that he was gay.

    And for whatever its worth, I have no problem with the fact that those documents were released. I believe in full transparency of the government in all but national security issues.
    Your second sentence partially redeems you, but a definition of "national security" is in order.

    As for your statement about Manning's anger about DADT, that is a peripheral issue only. Without having the transcript of his statement in court by my side, I do not recall that it was even mentioned in that statement to the court.

    He primary motivation was the same as Snowden's--a young man becoming greviously disillusioned by the reality of government crimes.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    My view remains that Mr. Snowden should have shared his concerns with Congress rather than releasing them to the media. The issues concerning surveillance are legitimate and should be examined by Congress.

    Subsequent developments appear to suggest that Snowden chose his route, possibly on account of perceived or actual grievances against the U.S. government with a desire to "punish" the U.S. Since he revealed the existence of the surveillance programs (telephony and PRISM), he also revealed that the U.S. has "hacked" Chinese interests. That such "hacking" occurs is not surprising, as it is something one would expect in the gathering of foreign intelligence for any major power where priority is given to the collection of military and strategic industrial information. That he disclosed it and the possible methodology involved suggests that his actions probably have much less to do with protecting the privacy of ordinary Americans and more to do with damaging U.S. interests. Almost certainly, that aspect will lead to his facing a tougher sentence should he be prosecuted and convicted than would otherwise have been the case.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Does it matter to you if the US Constitution was being harmed? Does it matter to you that long-held legal principles were being harmed? Do principles and law have any standing at all in today's Amerika?
    Is the constitution a holy document to you or something? Cause I try not to get in arguments about what's good for the US with religious zealots, I've spent enough time around Salafists.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    the affable, gaffe-able, laughable veep in the w-stands-for-what's-his-name years:

    In 2006, then-Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) blasted the Bush administration's domestic spying and called for a congressional investigation into the warrantless collection of millions of Americans' phone records.

    BIDEN:If it’s true that 200 million Americans phone calls were monitored, in terms of not listening to what they said but to whom they spoke and who spoke to them -- I don't know, the Congress should investigate this.

    This idea that no court will review, no Congress will know and we’re going to trust the president and the vice president of the United States, that they’re doing the right thing, don’t count me in on that.
    Biden In 2006: NSA Collection Of Phone Records Violates Privacy | RealClearPolitics

    if not snowden, who?

    franz kafka?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    As the story of the National Security Agency secret surveillance program exploded, sales of George Orwell’s “1984” - about a totalitarian state and government monitoring - have shot up on online book seller Amazon.

    As of Wednesday morning, four different editions of the book are in the top 40 of Amazon’s “Movers and Shakers” list with the highest ranking at 17. At one point, the Centennial Edition’s popularity was up nearly 10,000 percent and clocked in at third most popular on the list.
    Boom in '1984' sales in NSA wake - Hadas Gold - POLITICO.com

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Right. And the whole point is 'here' isn't a problem- although so many people hilariously think it is. Well, it wasn't until the hero of the ignorant and unwashed, Snowden, started talking.

    Maybe you think the plumbers and construction workers should be in charge of things. They can team up and make an organization. Call it a 'Soviet' or something.
    I think that the people, as a whole, (which includes plumbers etc.) should make our government's policy decisions through their elected representatives. Call it representational democracy. Where to draw the line when security measures conflict with our right to privacy is a decision that should be guided by the constitution and should be made openly.

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