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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

  1. #261
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    you are wrong majority of congress do not go through or take an oath of security only the ones in select committees do

    Do Members of Congress Have Security Clearances? - GovLoop - Knowledge Network for Government
    Oath of security? Those supposed briefed would be on intelligence committees, what be required to have clearances probably TS. Anyway, what oath of security are you referring to?

    Okay I see, Oath of Secrecy. Sounds rather clubbish. Most everyone else (i.e., military) have to go through a background check, interview, and training on the handling of classified data.
    Last edited by American; 06-10-13 at 09:13 PM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    I hope some one can explain this to me
    Obama made a speech claiming that all of congress was informed on the NSA information gathering
    If that is true how is it that what Snowden did was a leak? you cant leak information that has supposedly had been already made public. Can you?
    I'm still waiting for that promise, A promise that cant be made so how do you support a program that you cant promise it wont be abused. with this administrations track record how would anyone trust them with all that information?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Everyone lies. Politicians, citizens, police, judges, doctors. If you are human and you are breathing, you've told lies. Including when it comes to critical things.
    Sorry, but no. Not close. If you want to count "white lies", or such as pretending there is a Santa Claus, then your statement is correct. But blatant lies ? No. Many of us do not, and have not.

    Obama, however, lies like he could care less. He has eroded the credibility of the office to Nixonian levels again, and its still going down.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    By contrast, telephone calls and e-mail messages by people who are not under specific suspicion are reasonably expected to be private.
    And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
    Purportedly correct, but the record of the numbers you called and/or the people you e-mailed and when you called or e-mailed is also reasonably expected to be private.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
    The numbers of the two phones was collected.

    The length of the call was recorded.

    The exact location of both phones was recorded.

    This was all done without any suspicion whatsoever that any of the callers was involved in terrorist activity.

    Why are you ok with this?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
    That we know of ......... ............ yet.

    Meanwhile, it appears that all this is way beyond what the Patriot Act authorized. And what Obama promised. Its time to say "enough".

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
    Snowden made it clear that they collect all data and worry about sorting it out later.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanstantine View Post
    The numbers of the two phones was collected.

    The length of the call was recorded.

    The exact location of both phones was recorded.

    This was all done without any suspicion whatsoever that any of the callers was involved in terrorist activity.

    Why are you ok with this?
    As I've said, the programs make me uncomfortable, and I am understanding of the argument that the potential for abuse outweighs the benefit gained; though I think we should be willing to accurately describe the benefit gained as "fewer successful attacks against Americans".


    But realistically, everything you do that is electronic and transmitted goes into a database and is stored, and is nigh on impossible to fully erase. If someone with the resources of the US IC wants that data, they are going to be able to get it out of that database - your only real defeat mechanism is encryption, and that will only protect content (which isn't being widely collected anyway - again, that we know of).


    You know that part in the cop show where the lawyer asks the guy on the witness stand

    "And so Mr Smith, you say you had no contact with the deceased on the night of the murder?"

    "Mr Smith: That is correct"

    "Lawyer: But isn't it true, Mr Smith, that the record shows that your cell phone made three calls to the victims' cell phone that night, and that all three resulted in conversations?"

    [Dramatic Music Plays][Jury Gasps][Guilty Looking Guy Who Was Really Innocent Whom Matlock Just Saved Looks Relieved]


    Well.....what record did you think they were referring to all these years? All that stuff is stored, and available to the government if they have a warrant. Which, they did.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Snowden made it clear that they collect all data and worry about sorting it out later.
    Fair - I need to point out that I am discussing explicitly the distinction between machine storage of data and actual human compilation of information for processing and analysis.


    But (as I pointed out above in the Matlock example) all that data has been getting collected and stored for decades, and wasn't exactly a secret.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-10-13 at 10:46 PM.

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