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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

  1. #181
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Are you a French model?
    Doesn't matter the context. Doesn't matter if it's for or against my point of view. This comment will probably always make me smile. It's just that good.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  2. #182
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance | World news | guardian.co.uk

    And he is out. The man who revealed this **** storm. A hero and a great man that was not afraid to tell the truth and reveal something he thought was wrong. Whistle blowing is not a crime! [/FONT][/COLOR]
    The man is a criminal and should be prosecuted. Hero's don't hide in China.

    I fully support whistle-blowers, but whistle-blowing doesn’t give someone carte blanche to reveal any secret they're morally opposed to. Would anyone support someone who published the Normandy Invasion plans because they believed it wouldn't work? Whistle-blowing should be protected to cover individuals who reveal evidence of clear government wrongdoing. Revealing something that you'd don't want the government to do isn't whistle blowing, it's part sabotage, part espionage, and part treason.

    There's no clear evidence of government crime here. For better or worse, (mostly the latter) these programs are the will of the American people. You could have possibly made the case for illegality under the Bush years, when the Executive Branch operated in defiance of the FISA court. But since then these programs have been placed under supervision of all three branches of government. Furthermore, these programs shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's followed the issue.

    I didn't support the programs at the time, and I don't see any need to have them now. But they were implemented legally and with proper oversight. If you don't like the programs blame the people who didn't speak out against them when they could. Blame the partisans who should have known better. Blame the weak willed American people who convinced themselves to give up rights and privacy in the name of "freedom", and then congratulated themselves on their "bravery".

    If you feel that the oversight is incompetent (and it is). Then fire your incompetent representatives.

  3. #183
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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    As an aside.....are we entering a period where distrust in our government is reaching heights never before seen?
    Nope.

    Americans have always been skeptical and critical of their government.

    Suspicion, discontent, and so forth were certainly much greater in the 1960s, and capped off with Watergate. Nixon was illegally dropping bombs all over SE Asia, had an enemies list, tried to jail Ellsberg, his "Plumbers" were committing crimes just to dig up dirt on political opponents. COINTELPRO, spying on Martin Luther King, disrupting the Black Panthers, the National Guard killing four students at Kent State, nationwide protests.... The list goes on.

    There was also a big surge of anarchism and political discontent in the 1920s and 30s, as well as waves of populism in the 1890s, and obviously intense disruption and dissatisfaction leading up to and during the Civil War.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    It seems like many people think there is some distinction between the NSA reading/hearing the contents of our communications and simply knowing who, how often, and for how long we make contact with specific people. It turns out that the distinction isn't as great as we might suppose. They don't need the content for someone to know what is going on in your personal life. As such, prying into this kind of information is certainly a violation of your private, personal space.

    Here is the article that explains why:
    Verizon and the N.S.A.: The Problem with Metadata : The New Yorker

    If we really don't think that the government knowing your personal business is any big deal, then why not take it to its fullest. Why not just let them put cameras and microphones in your home, work and car. After all, I am certain this would save lives, which seems to be the only justification the government needs any more for people to just knuckle under. I am so disappointed in my fellow Americans right now, especially Obama.
    I am disappointed by both as well. It's very disheartening to see how many people have responded to this information with some variation of "it's no big deal." That this kind of treatment of citizens by the government is received with such indifference is troubling. Obama's response to this entire situation was sad as well. It pretty much confirmed to me that, unlike what he has said previously, he isn't particularly concerned with what regular Americans think.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    ..........If you feel that the oversight is incompetent (and it is). Then fire your incompetent representatives.
    Got to shine a bright light on the closed-door backroom cockroaches first. Snowden's bombshell has garnered at least some Congressional support over the weekend. This needed to be way out in the open.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Is it possible this program has saved lives? Absolutely. And once our technology advances to the point that the NSA actually CAN record and screen the contents of every phone call and email made I am sure even more lives could be saved. But it would still be wrong. Piece by piece by f-ing piece we are ceding our civil liberties in the name of security. Where does it stop? Where do we draw the line? It seems to me that the only thing keeping our government from absolute intrusion is the technology itself. As the technology improves the government WILL encroach more and more. History is proof positive of that.

    So when a public servant (ok, a contractor in this case) throws away his career and possibly risks his very freedom to give the People a wakeup call, it doesn’t make him a traitor.
    Yeah, the whole "it saves lives argument" isn't a sufficient justification. Plenty of things could save lives, but they aren't permissible. The thing that the government doesn't seem to understand is that they don't get to determine how much privacy I'm willing to give up for safety.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Got to shine a bright light on the closed-door backroom cockroaches first. Snowden's bombshell has garnered at least some Congressional support over the weekend. This needed to be way out in the open.
    I think the only credible elected officals on this issue are the ones who did not vote for the patriot act or have protested againist it.

    I think senators mark udall of Colorado, Jeff merkley or Oregon, and rand Paul of Kentucky are part of the small minority who think this fisa mess has gone too far.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Hey here is a crazy theory: maybe the revealing of this program will make it harder for terrorists to attack us?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    ...and if the federal government is itself the domestic enemy of the Constitution?
    It isn't this "Federal Government" as much as it is the administration that is occupying the power at present.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Yeah, the whole "it saves lives argument" isn't a sufficient justification. Plenty of things could save lives, but they aren't permissible. The thing that the government doesn't seem to understand is that they don't get to determine how much privacy I'm willing to give up for safety.
    “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” -Benjamin Franklin

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