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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    NSA "Boundless Informant" Heat Map Shows Surveillance Areas Around The Globe - HotHardware

    The link will show that a Congressional Committee tried to review this program and was denied that review by perjury by Clapper, head of NSA. I know your diplomatic "circle the wagons" rhetoric and suspect you always try to defend these law breaking functionaries by citing "security," "need to know," and other diplomatic nonsense. This is clearly an attempt to derail an investigation. Clapper committed perjury. Go directly to jail.
    I have not, in any way, suggested that the scale of surveillance should not be investigated. Indeed, previously I wrote:

    My opinion has been and remains that FISA is sufficiently robust and flexible to deal with the contemporary terrorist threat in a timely fashion, while safeguarding the basic constitutional rights of Americans. Unfortunately, post-9/11 laws have made possible today's dramatic escalation of domestic surveillance, even if such laws were adopted with the best of intentions. Congress should launch a bipartisan and transparent investigation into the recent reports of far-reaching domestic surveillance, as it may raise profound constitutional issues in the absence of clear and firm restraints.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061896656

    In terms of James Clapper's recent testimony, it is fair game for Congress to look into its veracity wherever material discrepancies might exist between what Congress now knows and what Congress was told.

    In short, my point is a narrow one, not the broad interpretation you give it. A leak to the media was not the best means for addressing the matter. The information should have been provided to Congress. Moreover, Congress should pursue a transparent and robust investigation into the domestic surveillance issue.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    I find little if any reason to "trust Congress" at this time. Snowden acted as a Patriot.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I have not, in any way, suggested that the scale of surveillance should not be investigated. Indeed, previously I wrote:

    My opinion has been and remains that FISA is sufficiently robust and flexible to deal with the contemporary terrorist threat in a timely fashion, while safeguarding the basic constitutional rights of Americans. Unfortunately, post-9/11 laws have made possible today's dramatic escalation of domestic surveillance, even if such laws were adopted with the best of intentions. Congress should launch a bipartisan and transparent investigation into the recent reports of far-reaching domestic surveillance, as it may raise profound constitutional issues in the absence of clear and firm restraints.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061896656

    In terms of James Clapper's recent testimony, it is fair game for Congress to look into its veracity wherever material discrepancies might exist between what Congress now knows and what Congress was told.

    In short, my point is a narrow one, not the broad interpretation you give it. A leak to the media was not the best means for addressing the matter. The information should have been provided to Congress. Moreover, Congress should pursue a transparent and robust investigation into the domestic surveillance issue.
    For the most part I agree, but didn't you also say this:

    "I have stated my thoughts that FISA is appropriate to handle the contemporary terrorist threat..."

    FISA is a secret court, with one side presented, and compromised in the essence that the government as we see under this administration will 'judge shop' until they get the answer they want. FISA is corrupted at this point.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I find little if any reason to "trust Congress" at this time. Snowden acted as a Patriot.
    I don't find much trust in Congress either, but Snowden acted with little difference between him, and Bradley Manning in my mind at the moment.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is a good point - the full extent of this program has not been released or discussed; only the sensational elements that are most newsworthy have thus far entered into the public discourse.
    And when, exactly, was this going to happen?

    Intelligence leadership had flat-out denied that this was even happening.

    The approval authority for these types of administrative warrants has received over 1700+ requests since its inception, and do you know how many they rejected? ZERO! (According to ABC news) So, the farce of accountability is really nothing more than a rubber-stamp. How convenient.

    Please explain when the government, on it's own and doing the right thing in the interest of honesty with its citizens, was going to come out and discuss this with us?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. There was a warrant
    2. There were also no searches of anyones' personal property
    so
    3. This is anything but a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.
    Is it one warrent or multiple? As in a warrent for every persons email and phone record?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    As an aside.....are we entering a period where distrust in our government is reaching heights never before seen?

    The NSA (this thread), IRS (targetting and intimidation), Justic Department (spying on the press, bullying specific reporters), State Department (prostitution and drug ring cover-ups, Fast & Furious, Bengazhi), Federal Reserve (printing money to float debt, multiplying the national debt), Congress (sequestration, budget and deficit inaction), and the White House administration (Obamacare fallout and fundraising, upcoming AHA taxes and penalties, class tax warfare).........

    It's hard to keep track of. I honestly don't remember a time ever like this.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    For the most part I agree, but didn't you also say this:

    "I have stated my thoughts that FISA is appropriate to handle the contemporary terrorist threat..."

    FISA is a secret court, with one side presented, and compromised in the essence that the government as we see under this administration will 'judge shop' until they get the answer they want. FISA is corrupted at this point.
    Correct.

    And, and was totally predictable, the court barely ever rejected a government request for eavesdropping. From its inception, it was the ultimate rubber-stamp court, having rejected a total of zero government applications - zero - in its first 24 years of existence, while approving many thousands. In its total 34 year history - from 1978 through 2012 - the Fisa court has rejected a grand total of 11 government applications, while approving more than 20,000.
    For calender year 2012 only, here's the numbers:



    Of 1856 applications for wiretaps, the government withdrew one, and all the rest were approved.
    The bad joke called 'the FISA court' shows how a 'drone court' would work | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
    What't the point ?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Coupled with this sudden push for gun control and the IRS and AP scandal, raises lots of questions. Anyway, this guy was a support contractor, but if he were a govt employee, he would have had to take an oath to protect the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. Loyalty and honor are one thing, but blind loyalty of going along to get along is quite another. He absolutely did break the rules of security, it appears. I doubt it was an easy decision, and he probably did it because he thought the government was going too far in surveilling Americans. I'm sure more details will be revealed.
    ...and if the federal government is itself the domestic enemy of the Constitution?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    As an aside.....are we entering a period where distrust in our government is reaching heights never before seen?

    The NSA (this thread), IRS (targetting and intimidation), Justic Department (spying on the press, bullying specific reporters), State Department (prostitution and drug ring cover-ups, Fast & Furious, Bengazhi), Federal Reserve (printing money to float debt, multiplying the national debt), Congress (sequestration, budget and deficit inaction), and the White House administration (Obamacare fallout and fundraising, upcoming AHA taxes and penalties, class tax warfare).........

    It's hard to keep track of. I honestly don't remember a time ever like this.
    Watergate

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