• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

No, but I can learn more about what makes up a human, and note that we are often more than one narrowly defined sex. Brain make up is different, largely made that way by the very DNA you speak of.

Humans aren't asexual. I'm not a paper-hanger and even if I was, I sure as hell wouldn't have a degree in biology, but I do know that much.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Your DNA is what drives sexual development. In nearly every single case an embryo that inherits the X and Y chromosome will develop sexually as a male, this deviates only when an abnormality is present. Please note how I said people with health XY genetics (no abnormalities or fetal hormone problems) will develop male or female. People with genetic abnormalities may developed intersex or have abnormal sexual development. If you took a sample from a transsexual person their genetics (if they have a healthy genome) will state that they are the sex that they are born with. DNA is the backbone that pretty much determines everything physically about a person. The instructions for sexual development come from the DNA. A physiologically healthy male has a male body, that will not change.
What drives sexual development is a separate issue from whether or not sex is exclusively genetic. Sex, contrary to your assertions and implications, is not exclusively genetic.

You said, "Altering the body to aesthetically appear like the other sex does not change their sex." This is inaccurate. It is inaccurate because a person's sex includes their genitalia and other physiological characteristics - not just their DNA. Therefore, when they alter their genitalia, hormones, et al. during the sex change process, they are altering certain aspects of their sex even while the DNA aspect of their sex remains unchangeable.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Unless you are born a hermaphrodite, you are just what you are...

No. There are likely markers on genes that emphasize some traits over others, as the theory goes. This some believe accounts for homosexuality as genetic orientation. It is also quite possible that this would genetically make one more female than male despite the physical appearance. You merely limit your biological definition to just what is obvious to YOU.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Humans aren't asexual. I'm not a paper-hanger and even if I was, I sure as hell wouldn't have a degree in biology, but I do know that much.

Humans are everything on the spectrum, including some being rather asexual. ;)
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

No. There are likely markers on genes that emphasize some traits over others, as the theory goes. This some believe accounts for homosexuality as genetic orientation. It is also quite possible that this would genetically make one more female than male despite the physical appearance. You merely limit your biological definition to just what is obvious to YOU.

Unless you are born a hermaphrodite, you are what you are. How you choose to live with that fact is certainly up to the individual...
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You're missing the point. And you didn't answer my question.

You claimed humans were not animals. I know of no serious scientific work that would support this and have no inclinations to engage in debate on such a completely silly idea.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Humans are everything on the spectrum, including some being rather asexual. ;)

Is this individual still on active duty?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Unless you are born a hermaphrodite, you are what you are. How you choose to live with that fact is certainly up to the individual...

I don't think your not understanding me. Who said anything about choice. Read it again and ask questions. I'll do my best to help you understand what I'm saying.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

What drives sexual development is a separate issue from whether or not sex is exclusively genetic. Sex, contrary to your assertions and implications, is not exclusively genetic.

You cited characteristics derived from genetic sex, that we can alter, as serving as indicators of sex. I just pointed out such indicators serve a secondary purpose to genetic testing and are only used based on their dependency on genetic sex
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I don't think your not understanding me. Who said anything about choice. Read it again and ask questions. I'll do my best to help you understand what I'm saying.

Why not just tell me what you're saying?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Is this individual still on active duty?

The warrior princess? I don't know. Wouldn't bother me if she was.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You said, "Altering the body to aesthetically appear like the other sex does not change their sex." This is inaccurate. It is inaccurate because a person's sex includes their genitalia and other physiological characteristics - not just their DNA. Therefore, when they alter their genitalia, hormones, et al. during the sex change process, they are altering certain aspects of their sex even while the DNA aspect of their sex remains unchangeable.

When we castrate animals their underlying biological sex does not change. And though in human societies they might hold a different cultural distinction based on such changes their underlying sex would still be determined by genetics.

What you are describing is gender
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Why not just tell me what you're saying?

I tried that. Being a woman with male parts is likely genetic, thus biological. Your definition of male and female is incomplete and inadequate.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

No, she is a she, period.

Sylvester Stallone has long hair and penis, is he a she too?:roll:
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

So... We grow sex organs in a lab and give them as transplants? Even if we could I highly doubt surgical medicine would advance to the point of being able to insert a completely foreign organ system into another person and have them be functional, especially giving a male a full female organ system.

It would be grown from your stem cells.

Also we transplant a heart or liver all the time. Hell we even to faces now. Dont forget the artificial heart.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You cited characteristics derived from genetic sex, that we can alter, as serving as indicators of sex. I just pointed out such indicators serve a secondary purpose to genetic testing and are only used based on their dependency on genetic sex
Which again, is a separate issue from whether or not sex is exclusively DNA. The latter is what I am and always have been concerned with.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

So. One day soon we will be able to change our genes. To reprogram ourselves. Until then there are hormone s and surgery.

If and when we reach that level, I will say one can change their sex from one to the other.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I tried that. Being a woman with male parts is likely genetic, thus biological. Your definition of male and female is incomplete and inadequate.

I don't recall defining male/female. I only pointed out that one is normally born as one or the other genetically. Now, if you would like to argue proclivities and their causes, we can go there as well...
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

When we castrate animals their underlying biological sex does not change. And though in human societies they might hold a different cultural distinction based on such changes their underlying sex would still be determined by genetics.

What you are describing is gender
Since the start, my only argument has been that sex is more than just DNA.

This is the definition of sex from the source that you provided:

(1) The assemblage of characters or qualities of being a male or a female in animals and plants.
(2) The genitals; the physical distinction between male and female.

Sex - definition from Biology-Online.org
According to that definition, is sex more than just DNA? Yes or no.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I don't recall defining male/female. I only pointed out that one is normally born as one or the other genetically. Now, if you would like to argue proclivities and their causes, we can go there as well...

And I pointed out that genetically is more than your genitals.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

What drives sexual development is a separate issue from whether or not sex is exclusively genetic. Sex, contrary to your assertions and implications, is not exclusively genetic.

You said, "Altering the body to aesthetically appear like the other sex does not change their sex." This is inaccurate. It is inaccurate because a person's sex includes their genitalia and other physiological characteristics - not just their DNA. Therefore, when they alter their genitalia, hormones, et al. during the sex change process, they are altering certain aspects of their sex even while the DNA aspect of their sex remains unchangeable.

What drives sexual development is not separate. As far as having a "sex change" where one attempts to say that they have changed their sex what is inaccurate is to only focus on how the external genitalia appear and say that alone can change sex. Sexual characteristics do include physiological characteristics brought about by sexual development, but even so a transsexual person does not have the anatomical or physiological characteristics of their desired sex. A man that has surgery to change the penis and accompanying region to appear female does not have a vagina. What is created is not a vagina, but merely something that looks like one. The same is true for a FTM transsexual. Those created "organs" are aesthetic imitations. Physiologically their body's characteristics are still according to their birth sex, their body unaided by treatment will function as it does according to their birth sex and they will need to be on constant hormone therapy. Removal of organs (like ovaries and testes) can alter hormone levels, but because every somatic cell in their body (for genetically healthy individuals) either has XY or XX their body will function according to that set of genes in a male or female fashion.

Let's go through this again:

Does DNA determine sex? Yes, your genetic code contains the instructions for your sexual development. XY is male and XX is female.
Are sexual organs part of what makes someone their sex? Yes, a MTF transsexual has a penis that has been surgically altered to look like a vagina, they do not have a vagina nor do they have female organs (uterus, ovaries, etc). A FTM transsexual still has a vagina that has been surgically altered to look like a penis, they do not have a penis nor do they have male sexual organs (prostate, testicles, etc). In both cases the natural sexual organs have been altered by surgery to appear different, but they are imitations of what is real as far as the opposite sex goes.
 
Last edited:
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And I pointed out that genetically is more than your genitals.

No, genetics defines your "sex", but I would agree that brain function might not agree...
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

What drives sexual development is not separate. As far as having a "sex change" where one attempts to say that they have changed their sex what is inaccurate is to only focus on how the external genitalia appear and say that alone can change sex. Sexual characteristics do include physiological characteristics brought about by sexual development, but even so a transsexual person does not have the anatomical or physiological characteristics of their desired sex. A man that has surgery to change the penis and accompanying region to appear female does not have a vagina. What is created is not a vagina, but merely something that looks like one. The same is true for a FTM transsexual. Those created "organs" are aesthetic imitations. Physiologically their characteristics are still according to their birth sex, their body unaided by treatment will function as it does according to their birth sex and they will need to be on constant hormone therapy.

Let's go through this again:

Does DNA determine sex? Yes, your genetic code contains the instructions for your sexual development. XY is male and XX is female.
Are sexual organs part of what makes someone their sex? Yes, a MTF transsexual has a penis that has been surgically altered to look like a vagina, they do not have a vagina nor do they have female organs (uterus, ovaries, etc). A FTM transsexual still has a vagina that has been surgically altered to look like a penis, they do not have a penis nor do they have male sexual organs (prostate, testicles, etc). In both cases the natural sexual organs have been altered by surgery to appear different, but they are imitations of what is real as far as the opposite sex goes.

So far, yes, there are limits. But biology is more than the outward appearance, and not just in a psychological way. Traits are also genetic, and markers on DNA likely influence which traits are emphasized. This can likely lead to a person who is fir all purposes female, but with male genitals. The body in conflict the person's biological makeup.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

The very concept of biology is human. We learn, adjust, redefine. Even biology is a human construct.

Yes, we can redefine biology on a whim like we do towards elements of gender. :lamo

Maybe it would be wise if you guys just stopped using this goal post shift?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

No, genetics defines your "sex", but I would agree that brain function might not agree...

The brain is a part of ones genetics, not separate. We're speaking of a biological function and not a mental one.
 
Back
Top Bottom