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Thread: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    How's Evolutionary Theory illogical? This should be good...
    See the 15 other threads where I have adderssed this.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    See the 15 other threads where I have adderssed this.
    Link me to them, provide your argument, or I can conclude you really don't have one.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Link me to them, provide your argument, or I can conclude you really don't have one.
    Conclude what you wish, it bears no relevance to this thread so I shall refrain.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Conclude what you wish, it bears no relevance to this thread so I shall refrain.
    Considering you're the one that originally brought up Evolution, why would it bother you now?
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    I think if you read my original response you will find that i said Texas does not allow this and the rest of the states require that the birth certificates be altered. If the birth certificate has not been altered and signed off on by the medical people it would be void be void. So I am trying to figure out what the problem is with what I stated. So i guess I am trying to figure out just what your question is here.
    Perhaps I misunderstood you. You seemed to be making the case that "gender" is largely a mental construct, and that the legal field (along with the medical field and "science") recognizes this to be true.

    My point is that the law often suggests otherwise. It may recognize that something called "gender identity disorder" or "gender dysphoria" exists, but as to what actually determines gender, the law largely relies on physical characteristics. From a legal standpoint, gender is rarely defined by what’s in a person’s head, it’s defined by what’s in a person’s pants.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    The surgery is necessary for the mental health of the patient. You may see it as unnecessary but it is. SRS is not paid for by the government it is paid for by the person or insurance companies. In many countries it is covered as part of the health program and it should be. In the US public covers very little for mental health or teeth or eyes. Go figure. There are great measures taken to see that SRS does not happen to a person not really transgender. This is so in all the countries I can think of. Even in the countries where it is covered.
    Stating psychology in general, but worse in a "field" that is very new and has very little in the way of research, as leading to such NECESSARY conclusions is inappropriate. This goes for any topic, not just transgender, be advised. You have no idea where the costs of SRS come from, whether there are tax incentives that the facilities get for legit purposes that they used to help fund SRS, the long term mental and health effects that it may have down the line that the person gets taxpayer funded assistance with, that is a direct result of having had SRS or if they try to reverse it. A minor issue, part of the overall mix.

    Because of the newness of SRS and the infrequency, the idea that great measures are always taken is way too pie in the sky. Even wiki notes that some therapists believe SRS is the only way to go....what!?! How would they know this? I suppose if they refer to a clinic and the procedure is $40K, I could believe that too.

    Great caution should be taken with something so outright dangerous as elective surgeries, entirely or nearly irreversible, lifelong hormone replacement/changes, and the social impact of gender transformation, the effect on sex life, that is largely based on pseudo-science, new pseudo-science at this point, in an area that can be exploited by practitioners for profit, etc. If you don't fairly represent that side as well, you do society a disservice IMO. Youth turn to all sorts of things they just know are right or necessary, adding this to the mix is worrisome. How many people get elective gastric bypass surgery and go through those hoops that claim they can't lose weight by eating fewer calories, and that they will stick to the plans, etc., and probably 90% of them are 100% full of ****? (family first hand here, I sympathize personally.....I'm being tough).

    Acceptance of transgender is not the issue at all, it bothers be in no practical way. It's much more complicated than that. And while I think it should not be prohibited, given all of the above demands serious restrictions be placed on the practice to help even those who claim to *really need it*, and the therapists who will basically back up whatever their patient wants (what sort of profession is that??).

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Perhaps I misunderstood you. You seemed to be making the case that "gender" is largely a mental construct, and that the legal field (along with the medical field and "science") recognizes this to be true.
    My point is that the law often suggests otherwise. It may recognize that something called "gender identity disorder" or "gender dysphoria" exists, but as to what actually determines gender, the law largely relies on physical characteristics. From a legal standpoint, gender is rarely defined by what’s in a person’s head, it’s defined by what’s in a person’s pants.
    In fact it is you who has constantly misunderstood or misread what I have have typed. Now I have said it is both. I have said this throughout the thread where I have posted. The debate is with a person who denies it is mental at all and is stating it is purely physical. You may want to read my posts and see exactly what I have been saying before makes erroneous statements about what I have said and what i have not said. Gender may wrongly be defined by what is in a persons pants. This is wrong it is a combination between mind and body. If it were solely a physical problem there would be no need of therapy to have the situation fixed. You obviously read like zero of what i have posted as i have used the term gender dysphoria many times already. Try catching up before posting so far you have omitted half of what i stated and added to the half you decided to misquote or misunderstand.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Stating psychology in general, but worse in a "field" that is very new and has very little in the way of research, as leading to such NECESSARY conclusions is inappropriate. This goes for any topic, not just transgender, be advised. You have no idea where the costs of SRS come from, whether there are tax incentives that the facilities get for legit purposes that they used to help fund SRS, the long term mental and health effects that it may have down the line that the person gets taxpayer funded assistance with, that is a direct result of having had SRS or if they try to reverse it. A minor issue, part of the overall mix.

    Because of the newness of SRS and the infrequency, the idea that great measures are always taken is way too pie in the sky. Even wiki notes that some therapists believe SRS is the only way to go....what!?! How would they know this? I suppose if they refer to a clinic and the procedure is $40K, I could believe that too.

    Great caution should be taken with something so outright dangerous as elective surgeries, entirely or nearly irreversible, lifelong hormone replacement/changes, and the social impact of gender transformation, the effect on sex life, that is largely based on pseudo-science, new pseudo-science at this point, in an area that can be exploited by practitioners for profit, etc. If you don't fairly represent that side as well, you do society a disservice IMO. Youth turn to all sorts of things they just know are right or necessary, adding this to the mix is worrisome. How many people get elective gastric bypass surgery and go through those hoops that claim they can't lose weight by eating fewer calories, and that they will stick to the plans, etc., and probably 90% of them are 100% full of ****? (family first hand here, I sympathize personally.....I'm being tough).

    Acceptance of transgender is not the issue at all, it bothers be in no practical way. It's much more complicated than that. And while I think it should not be prohibited, given all of the above demands serious restrictions be placed on the practice to help even those who claim to *really need it*, and the therapists who will basically back up whatever their patient wants (what sort of profession is that??).
    I really don't think I need be advised on anything in this topic from you who relates one case study to make a point when there are thousands upon thousands of cases already in the books that have been successful. Well when you come up with say a hundred cases studies of failure than perhaps you have a talking point. You have one and basing a debate on one case study doesn't cut it please be advised. You need to have more behind you than one case. Well lets see the data to prove beyond this one case where the success rate is so poor. Then i may give even a modicum of credence to your concerns. I bet if i look even a little bit i can find tens of thousands of cases where people have had surgery for cancer and died anyway. So tell me do you think people should have surgery for cancer.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Now I have said it is both. I have said this throughout the thread where I have posted. The debate is with a person who denies it is mental at all and is stating it is purely physical. You may want to read my posts and see exactly what I have been saying before makes erroneous statements about what I have said and what i have not said.
    Don't know where you're getting this - I've been quite conscientious of the fact that you recognize both mental and physical components and made sure to reflect that in what I posted. I did not claim that you said "gender is a mental construct," I said that you "seemed to be making the case that it is largely" a mental construct. That was based on something you said earlier:

    "Consider that most of our sexuality is mental and not physical at all. You disregard the greater portion of human sexuality in your discussion of gender."

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Gender may wrongly be defined by what is in a persons pants. This is wrong it is a combination between mind and body. If it were solely a physical problem there would be no need of therapy to have the situation fixed.
    Again, I did not talk in absolutes as you claim - I was actually very careful not to do so. I said that the law "largely relies on physical characteristics" and "rarely relies on what's in the head."

    I was basically pointing out that with respect to gender, the law is more concerned with physical attributes than mental attributes, which was sort of the flip side of what I thought you were saying earlier - that gender has more to do with the mental than the physical. And even there I qualified my interpretation by saying "perhaps I misunderstood you."

    Sheesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    You obviously read like zero of what i have posted as i have used the term gender dysphoria many times already.
    ...quite the contrary, I know very well that you used the term because it's the only reason I brought it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Try catching up before posting so far you have omitted half of what i stated and added to the half you decided to misquote or misunderstand.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    So you agree it is switching, which means you were in fact one before. So it's not natural.
    What does it matter if its natural?

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