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Thread: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree. When it comes to sex, it would be inaccurate to focus only on external genitalia just as it would be inaccurate to focus only on DNA. This is why I advocate acknowledging the totality of sex which includes genitalia, DNA and variety of other characteristics.


    This is inaccurate. The following are links to the sites of two doctors who perform SRS and they say that they create a vagina, labia, clitoris, et al. through surgery not "imitations" of those body parts. The problem is that you are defining genitalia in terms of their origins when genitalia are actually defined in terms of their structure regardless of their origins.

    Papillon Center - Dr. McGinn SRS, HRT, and Electrolysis
    Male to Female Gender Reassignment Surgery

    Other sources use the same language. Unless you have a source to demonstrate that these doctors who, unlike you, perform SRS are incorrect, then your argument holds no water.


    See above.
    A doctor is a doctor, not a biologist. They can't simply redefine biological terms

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    1. "Secondary characteristics", et al. are irrelevant to my argument as I have repeated. Again, you are attempting to direct the conversation towards a red herring. (By the way, genitalia are actually primary, not secondary sex characteristics, LOL - so you can't even get your red herring correct).

    2. So you are ignoring the definition of sex provided by your own source, then. That tells me all that I need to know about you, LOL. Have a nice night.
    I'm using secondary in the sense that they are derived from genetic sex, not genetic sex is derived from them.

    I work in taxonomy so I understand the technical definition quite well

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree. When it comes to sex, it would be inaccurate to focus only on external genitalia just as it would be inaccurate to focus only on DNA. This is why I advocate acknowledging the totality of sex which includes genitalia, DNA and variety of other characteristics.
    So, given the fact that their DNA is still identical to their birth sex and their genitals are not genuine do you still believe that a transgendered person has truly changed their sex?
    This is inaccurate. The following are links to the sites of two doctors who perform SRS and they say that they create a vagina, labia, clitoris, et al. through surgery not "imitations" of those body parts. The problem is that you are defining genitalia in terms of their origins when genitalia are actually defined in terms of their structure regardless of their origins.

    Papillon Center - Dr. McGinn SRS, HRT, and Electrolysis
    Male to Female Gender Reassignment Surgery

    Other sources use the same language. Unless you have a source to demonstrate that these doctors who, unlike you, perform SRS are incorrect, then your argument holds no water.


    See above.
    Are you seriously arguing using the wording of a few surgeons that are advertising their transgender surgery services as if this is an absolute definition? They can claim all that, or "say that they" create a vagina, labia, clitoris and all those other things but that doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is altering current organs to appear like different ones. They do not have the function of a natural vagina, they are a modified penis that simply looks like one. What they are are creating imitations. I could go into more graphic detail but I'll spare the forum that. The transsexual vagina is an imitation vagina typically created from the penis, scrotum, and possibly other tissues from the body grafted in. Look this up for me, does the transsexual vagina keep a pH relative to a real vagina? What about the Bulbourethral gland/Bartholin's gland? How about prostatic fluid/vaginal fluid? It may look like a vagina, but it doesn't function as one and is lacking anatomical features you may not see.

    Also, the fact that I am not an SRS performing surgeon doesn't negate any of what I've argued.

    Let's establish a few things: You say you look at defining sex with a more "whole" picture by looking at DNA and genitals/anatomy. It has been shown that a transsexual's DNA remains unchanged from their birth DNA. Their genitals are formed from their birth genitals and lack the normal reproductive functions of natural genitals for their desired sex. What they have is an imitation created by surgical means to appear aesthetically like a vagina or penis. These imitation organs lack the proper physiological functions of natural, real sexual organs created through development as instructed by the person's DNA.

    If you took a DNA sample from a transsexual the results will say that they are their birth sex. If you look at reproductive function you would find that they have no reproduction function, that was removed/destroyed when their imitative reproductive organs were created.

    You are ignoring genetics and placing your definition on aesthetics and the advertisements of a few surgeons that are advertising their surgical services. Biologically their sex has not been changed. You can argue that the ethics of their gender has been changed, but their sex remains the same.
    Last edited by digsbe; 06-09-13 at 08:29 PM.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    I a seeing a transgender specialist. If I decide to get hormones and pass I expect to be called she.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You're welcome.



    I think I was clear in saying that the research is pretty new... only from the last 15 years. We have no causal links to anything regarding sexuality, sexual orientation, or the like.
    Well then, how can you be SO sure it isn't psychiatric?



    That's one study. There are several other studies that I do not have the links to.



    Other more recent studies check people who are NOT on hormones and they found that being on hormones or not has no impact on the results. None at all.
    Well, I'd like to see those because under the discussion section in your other that's exactly what it says. It states that the results may not be accurate because of those reasons among SEVERAL others.

    No, and this is key. As I said above, there was no difference found in people on hormones verses people not on hormones.
    What I meant by this was a naturally occurring hormonal imbalance. I've also read that certain medications or hormones that a mother took during pregnancy and/or breastfeeding could cause some kind of chemical imbalance.


    One study. There are others.



    The studies don't rule out anything because the information is pretty new. However, the studies have been reporting consistent findings. When you get consistent findings across several studies, you can start to draw conclusions from these findings... and the conclusions clearly point to a biological, not a psychological issue.
    I understand that. I'm saying that the exact cause has NOT yet been determined. You have hypotheses based on some sketchy evidence. Now if I could look at some of those other larger sample sized studies, that would be great.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    I a seeing a transgender specialist. If I decide to get hormones and pass I expect to be called she.
    You can expect whatever you want, but what people feel like giving you is another matter entirely.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    ANYTHING would be immediate for the children... divorce, an illness, money problems, moving, etc... That does NOT equate to "devastating" or "destructive".
    It would be pretty devastating for a child for daddy to turn into a woman suddenly. That is quite easy to see.

    I never did.
    Okay.


    Because you don't by how you post. This is not a binary issue... it's not either all fine and happy or devastating and destructive and it remains that way. If you think it's black or white, then you don't understand the issue.
    For children, a lot of issues are black or white. I understand that everything is not.


    Experts and those in the psychological community... who would know... say it is not. Your denial is irrelevant.
    I have yet to see the evidence to support this sudden change in opinion. Seems like a PC decision to me.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Australian researchers have identified a significant link between a gene involved in testosterone action and male-to-female transsexualism.

    DNA analysis from 112 male-to-female transsexual volunteers showed they were more likely to have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene.

    BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It would be pretty devastating for a child for daddy to turn into a woman suddenly. That is quite easy to see.
    My Mate, Jimmy shoes, got pretty heavy into drugs afterwards. Ended up oding a few years later. But there were plenty of family issues prior to that. He pretty much lived with my family from age 13, basically because his mom just didn't care about him. I imagine she just looked at it as one less thing she had to deal with while trying to make her way to the bar

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