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Thread: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

  1. #371
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    What drives sexual development is a separate issue from whether or not sex is exclusively genetic. Sex, contrary to your assertions and implications, is not exclusively genetic.

    You said, "Altering the body to aesthetically appear like the other sex does not change their sex." This is inaccurate. It is inaccurate because a person's sex includes their genitalia and other physiological characteristics - not just their DNA. Therefore, when they alter their genitalia, hormones, et al. during the sex change process, they are altering certain aspects of their sex even while the DNA aspect of their sex remains unchangeable.
    What drives sexual development is not separate. As far as having a "sex change" where one attempts to say that they have changed their sex what is inaccurate is to only focus on how the external genitalia appear and say that alone can change sex. Sexual characteristics do include physiological characteristics brought about by sexual development, but even so a transsexual person does not have the anatomical or physiological characteristics of their desired sex. A man that has surgery to change the penis and accompanying region to appear female does not have a vagina. What is created is not a vagina, but merely something that looks like one. The same is true for a FTM transsexual. Those created "organs" are aesthetic imitations. Physiologically their body's characteristics are still according to their birth sex, their body unaided by treatment will function as it does according to their birth sex and they will need to be on constant hormone therapy. Removal of organs (like ovaries and testes) can alter hormone levels, but because every somatic cell in their body (for genetically healthy individuals) either has XY or XX their body will function according to that set of genes in a male or female fashion.

    Let's go through this again:

    Does DNA determine sex? Yes, your genetic code contains the instructions for your sexual development. XY is male and XX is female.
    Are sexual organs part of what makes someone their sex? Yes, a MTF transsexual has a penis that has been surgically altered to look like a vagina, they do not have a vagina nor do they have female organs (uterus, ovaries, etc). A FTM transsexual still has a vagina that has been surgically altered to look like a penis, they do not have a penis nor do they have male sexual organs (prostate, testicles, etc). In both cases the natural sexual organs have been altered by surgery to appear different, but they are imitations of what is real as far as the opposite sex goes.
    Last edited by digsbe; 06-09-13 at 06:46 PM.

  2. #372
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I pointed out that genetically is more than your genitals.
    No, genetics defines your "sex", but I would agree that brain function might not agree...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  3. #373
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    What drives sexual development is not separate. As far as having a "sex change" where one attempts to say that they have changed their sex what is inaccurate is to only focus on how the external genitalia appear and say that alone can change sex. Sexual characteristics do include physiological characteristics brought about by sexual development, but even so a transsexual person does not have the anatomical or physiological characteristics of their desired sex. A man that has surgery to change the penis and accompanying region to appear female does not have a vagina. What is created is not a vagina, but merely something that looks like one. The same is true for a FTM transsexual. Those created "organs" are aesthetic imitations. Physiologically their characteristics are still according to their birth sex, their body unaided by treatment will function as it does according to their birth sex and they will need to be on constant hormone therapy.

    Let's go through this again:

    Does DNA determine sex? Yes, your genetic code contains the instructions for your sexual development. XY is male and XX is female.
    Are sexual organs part of what makes someone their sex? Yes, a MTF transsexual has a penis that has been surgically altered to look like a vagina, they do not have a vagina nor do they have female organs (uterus, ovaries, etc). A FTM transsexual still has a vagina that has been surgically altered to look like a penis, they do not have a penis nor do they have male sexual organs (prostate, testicles, etc). In both cases the natural sexual organs have been altered by surgery to appear different, but they are imitations of what is real as far as the opposite sex goes.
    So far, yes, there are limits. But biology is more than the outward appearance, and not just in a psychological way. Traits are also genetic, and markers on DNA likely influence which traits are emphasized. This can likely lead to a person who is fir all purposes female, but with male genitals. The body in conflict the person's biological makeup.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The very concept of biology is human. We learn, adjust, redefine. Even biology is a human construct.
    Yes, we can redefine biology on a whim like we do towards elements of gender.

    Maybe it would be wise if you guys just stopped using this goal post shift?

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    No, genetics defines your "sex", but I would agree that brain function might not agree...
    The brain is a part of ones genetics, not separate. We're speaking of a biological function and not a mental one.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, we can redefine biology on a whim like we do towards elements of gender.

    Maybe it would be wise if you guys just stopped using this goal post shift?
    You're missing the point, on purpose I'd wager.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    It would be grown from your stem cells.

    Also we transplant a heart or liver all the time. Hell we even to faces now. Dont forget the artificial heart.
    Do you understand how this process and stem cells in general work or are you relying on the theoretical and saying this is going to be possible in 20 years? The stem cells that exist to be created into those organs have been used. Current cells would have to be de-differentiated to the level of an embryonic stem cell, have the genetics altered to be the opposite sex, artificially grown and matured into an organ and then surgically placed into a patient without rejection (self stem cells would have little to no rejection).

    Transplanting a uterus, vagina, ovaries, uterine tubes and other female organs into a male body that anatomically is not created to house such things causes a problem from a surgical standpoint. Giving a woman male organs may be easier due to the external nature of the system but the opposite would pose problems. Anatomically there are serious problems that need to be overcome and everything you say is theoretical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So far, yes, there are limits. But biology is more than the outward appearance, and not just in a psychological way. Traits are also genetic, and markers on DNA likely influence which traits are emphasized. This can likely lead to a person who is fir all purposes female, but with male genitals. The body in conflict the person's biological makeup.
    How so? I'm not discussing people with genetic abnormalities or people who are intersexed. What do you mean by "for all purposes female, but with male genitals"?

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The brain is a part of ones genetics, not separate. We're speaking of a biological function and not a mental one.
    When the genetic marker has been identified, let me know. Also, if that were to happen, there would probably be many changing from pro-choice to pro-life...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're missing the point, on purpose I'd wager.
    Nope, not at all. You just don't understand human constructs and so you define everything as a human construct.

  10. #380
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    When the genetic marker has been identified, let me know. Also, if that were to happen, there would probably be many changing from pro-choice to pro-life...
    You might want to investigate. Recent theory is as I've explained it. Your last comment makes no sense to me btw.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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