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Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And do you have stats to backup that these people's lives are better and the Dysphoria is relaxed after the surgery?
Do you have stats to say they are not happier. Do you have any stats on anything. I have offered books and other stats along the way and you still have shown nothing so i is your turn to prove they are not happier beyond the one case. Back in 1952 Christine Jorgensen was the first and she was happier. The tennis player Renee Richards was happier. April Ashley was happier. I have friends who are happier. But if you want stats show me the stats you think you have and i will be happy to disprove them.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Feels like they were born of the wrong sex. People do realize that feelings don't equate facts right?

Of course. However thats not the reason people are saying her sex is female. It is the reason why people are saying her gender is female though. Remember that sex and gender are two different things.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Of course. However thats not the reason people are saying her sex is female. It is the reason why people are saying her gender is female though. Remember that sex and gender are two different things.

That's where we disagree.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Yes, I disagree.

Oh well your wrong. They are two different concepts. Most people use them interchangeably kind of like how they use theory and hypothesis interchangeably but the fact is they just arnt.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Oh well your wrong. They are two different concepts. Most people use them interchangeably kind of like how they use theory and hypothesis interchangeably but the fact is they just arnt.

They are, the were not different until people decided changing their sex was a good idea.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

They are, the were not different until people decided changing their sex was a good idea.

The meanings of words change over time.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

They are, the were not different until people decided changing their sex was a good idea.
When it comes to referring to people in a politically correct manner, you really need a third set of definitions:

Sex: "What I am"
Gender: "What I want others to think of me as"
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

When it comes to referring to people in a politically correct manner, you really need a third set of definitions:

Sex: "What I am"
Gender: "What I want others to think of me as"

Politically correct is the dumbest thing ever and is partisan in nature. Call it for what it is.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Just because the body looks male does not make her a male. If the mind is female than she is female and those who would oppose this do not understand the nature of gender or sexuality.

I'm with you up to a point. We now know there are some very discernible differences in male and female brain anatomy and even in our neurochemical distribution. For example men have larger parietal lobes, left hemisphere areas are proportionally larger in women, men may have longer axons in our white matter, and on and on. When it comes to chemical balances I think we are still delving into the matter and it may hold the keys to understanding the naturalistic origins for homosexuality.

My problem is that I don't actually think there has been a consensus study that trans-women have the same 'brains' as naturally born females and it would be surprising if they actually were the same.

That being said there is no reason to oppose the rights of trans men and women, but muddying the scientific waters to justify it doesn't seem like the way to go. Not that you were.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I'm with you up to a point. We now know there are some very discernible differences in male and female brain anatomy and even in our neurochemical distribution. For example men have larger parietal lobes, left hemisphere areas are proportionally larger in women, men may have longer axons in our white matter, and on and on. When it comes to chemical balances I think we are still delving into the matter and it may hold the keys to understanding the naturalistic origins for homosexuality.

My problem is that I don't actually think there has been a consensus study that trans-women have the same 'brains' as naturally born females and it would be surprising if they actually were the same.

That being said there is no reason to oppose the rights of trans men and women, but muddying the scientific waters to justify it doesn't seem like the way to go. Not that you were.

I don't think anywhere in this thread did I say the brains were the same in a trans-woman and a born female. I have stated throughout gender is as much mental as physical. Never once have I mentioned the brain being the same. You have put words in my mouth. Women are more right brained and men more left brained. Yet some females have more masculine traits or what we refer to as masculine traits. Some men have more feminine or what we refer as feminine traits. Though the brain may be different as is the physical body sometimes the thinking is skewed. All men are not the same the feminine qualities can vary considerably in a male. Depending on where this percentage lies can certainly affect the way body is perceived which I am sure happens once children realize the physical differences. The mannerisms of a child have been noted in study and some males exhibit more feminine likes and attitudes. Some men exhibit more feminine qualities than some females. This has nothing to do with the brain being the same. This just happens and is a function of the mental process not the brain being the same. We do not understand these functions. What makes some men gay and the majority straight? We know it is not their brain being female. If this were the case it would be easy to know what makes one guy gay and the other not. The transgender is the same science does not know what causes this but it does happen. No it is not that the brain is the same as females just as the body is not. It is the mental process which is analyzed and how this person thinks and perceives the world which determines if they have sexual dysphoria.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Just because the body looks male does not make her a male. If the mind is female than she is female and those who would oppose this do not understand the nature of gender or sexuality.

You make it sound like a mental disorder. XX and XY chromosome pairs seem to be the only common definitions, everything else seems like it falls into the transgender candidates.

**added: For the record, I don't care what the Seal decides to do. Not sure why I even need to know--probably someone along the way has an agenda.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You make it sound like a mental disorder. XX and XY chromosome pairs seem to be the only common definitions, everything else seems like it falls into the transgender candidates.

**added: For the record, I don't care what the Seal decides to do. Not sure why I even need to know--probably someone along the way has an agenda.
Gender Identity Disorder is listed as a disorder. Here is a link to Psychology Today Gender Identity Disorder | Psychology Today
I don't really think I care what it is called it is a problem and it can be fixed. XX mental process and function is not the same as all other XX. XY are not all the same either. The disorder in my way of the thinking is that the body does not match the mental. When you consider the percent of people who actually have Gender Dysphoria it's really very rare in society.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Gender Identity Disorder is listed as a disorder. Here is a link to Psychology Today Gender Identity Disorder | Psychology Today
I don't really think I care what it is called it is a problem and it can be fixed. XX mental process and function is not the same as all other XX. XY are not all the same either. The disorder in my way of the thinking is that the body does not match the mental. When you consider the percent of people who actually have Gender Dysphoria it's really very rare in society.

Why would they not just go to a mental hospital like other mental disorders?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Why would they not just go to a mental hospital like other mental disorders?
These people do go through therapy and years of it. It is a disorder and can be corrected with a surgery. Once corrected the disorder is gone. Funny how it works. A medical surgery can fix a mental disorder. It makes one wonder whether the mental or the body is disordered. How would it be possible for a mental disorder to be cured by a surgery completely? It makes me think the disorder is far more physical than mental. Therapy does not correct Gender Dysphoria so why would you think a stay in a mental hospital would help?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

These people do go through therapy and years of it. It is a disorder and can be corrected with a surgery. Once corrected the disorder is gone. Funny how it works. A medical surgery can fix a mental disorder. It makes one wonder whether the mental or the body is disordered. How would it be possible for a mental disorder to be cured by a surgery completely? It makes me think the disorder is far more physical than mental. Therapy does not correct Gender Dysphoria so why would you think a stay in a mental hospital would help?

I was asking a question. Mental therapy helps lots of mental patients. Do you also have some reasearch I can review that shows the surgery completely takes care of the disorder?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I was asking a question. Mental therapy helps lots of mental patients. Do you also have some research I can review that shows the surgery completely takes care of the disorder?
There are a lot of studies and case histories which prove the point. It is the rare case where the surgery does not help and can make matters worse. This is very rare. Like any other disorder misdiagnosis can be made. The process is not infallible. The success rate is somewhere around 98% in treating the disorder. You can look up the stats on Google. It works very well. In fact a number of insurance companies are now covering the process. It has taken years for them to pick up the tab. They know now this is not a frivolous surgery. There are somewhere around 30000 Trans-people around the world. When you consider this in relation to society at large it is a drop in the bucket.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I don't think anywhere in this thread did I say the brains were the same in a trans-woman and a born female. I have stated throughout gender is as much mental as physical. Never once have I mentioned the brain being the same. You have put words in my mouth. Women are more right brained and men more left brained. Yet some females have more masculine traits or what we refer to as masculine traits. Some men have more feminine or what we refer as feminine traits. Though the brain may be different as is the physical body sometimes the thinking is skewed. All men are not the same the feminine qualities can vary considerably in a male. Depending on where this percentage lies can certainly affect the way body is perceived which I am sure happens once children realize the physical differences. The mannerisms of a child have been noted in study and some males exhibit more feminine likes and attitudes. Some men exhibit more feminine qualities than some females. This has nothing to do with the brain being the same. This just happens and is a function of the mental process not the brain being the same. We do not understand these functions. What makes some men gay and the majority straight? We know it is not their brain being female. If this were the case it would be easy to know what makes one guy gay and the other not. The transgender is the same science does not know what causes this but it does happen. No it is not that the brain is the same as females just as the body is not. It is the mental process which is analyzed and how this person thinks and perceives the world which determines if they have sexual dysphoria.

You are grossly over-reacting to what I said. You said mind and my thoughts went to neurology and the brain. Also if you accept that consciousnesses is an emergent quality then it stands to reason that mental states of mind also are connected in some way to physical realities and differences in the brain. There are reasons that on the mean men and women behave, think, and act relatively different and it is not just a product of social conditioning. My point being that while I would respect the need for a trans-women or trans-man to be called by whatever gender they feel most comfortable as, it doesn't mean they were actually born a male or a female and I'm not as keen on separating gender and sex as some others are.

On a tangential point I think it highly likely that exhibitions of feminine, masculine, or other qualities has everything to do with the brain and our neurochemical makeup. We may not understand it yet, but it seems unlikely to me that it is unconnected to that. I would be very interested to see what we learn about the brains of transgendered people as the sophistication of neuroscience increases in the coming years.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You are grossly over-reacting to what I said. You said mind and my thoughts went to neurology and the brain. Also if you accept that consciousnesses is an emergent quality then it stands to reason that mental states of mind also are connected in some way to physical realities and differences in the brain. There are reasons that on the mean men and women behave, think, and act relatively different and it is not just a product of social conditioning. My point being that while I would respect the need for a trans-women or trans-man to be called by whatever gender they feel most comfortable as, it doesn't mean they were actually born a male or a female and I'm not as keen on separating gender and sex as some others are.

On a tangential point I think it highly likely that exhibitions of feminine, masculine, or other qualities has everything to do with the brain and our neurochemical makeup. We may not understand it yet, but it seems unlikely to me that it is unconnected to that. I would be very interested to see what we learn about the brains of transgendered people as the sophistication of neuroscience increases in the coming years.

Gender Dysphoria is as you say not a product of environment. It is in the natural mental process of the patient. It will be interesting as the discoveries move forward as to why some of these situations occur. But this disorder like so many other disorders in a persons mental heath are unknowns. It is a matter of time and maybe never when they make new discoveries. Maybe someday they will do a better job in FtM surgery.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Fine, label me with Gender bias, I guess God is gender biased too since he created the guy male.

Judge not lest ye be judged...?
 
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