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Thread: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm not sure too many people are arguing that she's a real honest-to-goodness woman, because I agree with you. She's not. Only that she deserves the respect to be called what she wishes and respected regardless of what one's thoughts on the matter may be. If I'm not too far mistaken, I think that's all these people want from the rest of us.
    Ive seen numerous people make that argument on this very board, actually. Yourstar being one of them.

    Also, I am lost on where anyone would get an endorsement for not respecting their personal wishes from anything I wrote above. I was just attempting to highlight my comments about an outward projection of manliness had nothing to do with an overly sympathetic viewpoint. Which seems to be the main counter point being cited here to such things.
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 06-09-13 at 02:43 PM.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Hummm. Well, to get back to the point, homosexuals can and should have children. Their parents will feel much better about them if they do.
    Why would a parent not "feel good" about their child already regardless of their sexual orientation?
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Ive seen numerous people make that argument on this very board, actually. Yourstar being one of them.

    Also, I am lost on where anyone would get an endorsement for not respecting their personal wishes from anything I wrote above. I was just attempting to highlight my comments about an outward projection of manliness had nothing to do with an overly sympathetic viewpoint. Which seems to be the main counter point being cited here to such things.
    Oh, I undersstand -- the rest of that post was directed at the world in general.
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Why would a parent not "feel good" about their child already regardless of their sexual orientation?
    Many parents don't "feel good" about their transgendered or homosexual children. That's just a fact. It's much better now that it's been in years past, but I'm pretty confident many parents are, at the very least, sad that their children are out of the mainstream. Not as much today, but most certainly in the past, they had/could have a very tough row to hoe.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Many parents don't "feel good" about their transgendered or homosexual children. That's just a fact. It's much better now that it's been in years past, but I'm pretty confident many parents are, at the very least, sad that their children are out of the mainstream. Not as much today, but most certainly in the past, they had/could have a very tough row to hoe.
    Glad to see love is conditional only if one meets the parents' expectations. Really? There's not a problem with that?
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Glad to see love is conditional only if one meets the parents' expectations. Really? There's not a problem with that?
    Where did I say there wasn't a problem with that?? If you aren't aware of parents who treat their homosexual children differently, whose hearts break for them, then I'd say you probably don't know too many homosexuals and the intricacies of their family relationships.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Glad to see love is conditional only if one meets the parents' expectations. Really? There's not a problem with that?
    I think you're confusing love and pride.
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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Here's the thing. Facts and biology say he is a man. You cannot change that. A genetically healthy person with XY or XX chromosomes will be male or female and that does not change. Altering the body to aesthetically appear like the other sex does not change their sex. He may feel like a woman, he may want to be a woman and he may try to look like a woman but he will never ever be a woman.

    Sex is biological, it's science. Gender is more ethical (with links to sex) and social. As far as gender being an ethical thing he is still a female. In my view he is a man trying to appear as a woman and convincing himself that he is female. I respect his self image and how he wants to present himself, but ethically I do not believe that this makes him female or a woman and I believe that he is wrong.

    I don't hate transgendered people or think people shouldn't be allowed to have the procedure done. It's their body, their self image, and their life. I can disagree but ultimately they should be free to make choices for themselves. However, if he is going to throw around his transgenderism it's not unreasonable for people do disagree and not be proud of his choice. It's also not reasonable for him to demand or force that everyone modify their ethics in a way that forces them to believe that he's a woman (not saying he is doing this, but this appears to be the argument of some). I don't hate him for being transgendered, I think if he thinks it will make him happy then that's fine, it's his body. However, I don't respect his decision in the fact that I agree with it and what I know from biological science and my ethical code regarding gender I do not recognize him as a woman and will not recognize him as a woman. No hate involved, and honestly it's a damn shame that people have to try and defend themselves from being lumped in with "haters, bigots, transophobes" and whatever stuff others want to make accusations of.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Glad to see love is conditional only if one meets the parents' expectations. Really? There's not a problem with that?
    well, we can argue about what should be or just acknowledge what is. The later seems much more relevant to the discussion

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I think you're confusing love and pride.
    Why would you not have pride in your child if they were to be homosexual / transgendered?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Where did I say there wasn't a problem with that?? If you aren't aware of parents who treat their homosexual children differently, whose hearts break for them, then I'd say you probably don't know too many homosexuals and the intricacies of their family relationships.
    I wasn't targeting you, Maggie. I know homosexuals and have met their families. Of course, this is anecdotal and contributes little to the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    well, we can argue about what should be or just acknowledge what is. The later seems much more relevant to the discussion
    Or you can realize both are pertinent. There's no exclusivity here.
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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