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Thread: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    New meaning to the phrase "in the Navy".
    It's not new..



    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Oh please, stop with that crap.
    Actually, I can't tell you how many severe closet cases I've met that either were, or wanted to become, Catholic clergy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I go home from work and what happens? Ignorant statements abound. Let me address a few things. Firstly, Chris brings up the point that it is "selfish" for someone with children to present that they are transgendered and begin HRT and SRS. This is a very simplistic view of a complex issue... something that runs rampant in this thread, especially from those who demonstrate their ignorance on this topic (some of whom I have already called out on this), but also from some people who should know better. How would someone presenting that they are transgendered and beginning HRT and/or SRS affect one's family and children? It would affect them, and it is silly to think that it wouldn't. It is a major alteration in the family structure and in parts of the person's identity and behaviors. Would it be devastating and destructive? Not necessarily. Most of you have no idea what happens with someone who is transgendered. Seems to me that a few of you believe that one day, a person wakes up and says "I'm not a man, I'm a woman", tells everyone, and then, the next day goes in for surgery. That is ridiculous. Let me explain how it happens.

    Full disclosure. For those of you who don't know, I am a psychotherapist and have been for 20+ years. I have a private practice and specialize on adolescent issues. I am one of the few therapists in my area who treats folks with transgenderism. What happens when someone walks into my office and says "I'm transgendered"? Do I immediately say, "Yes, you are". No, not at all. That is against the standards of practice. The first thing I must do is determine if someone is transgendered or if they have some other psychosexual/psychological disorder. ESPECIALLY with adolescents (which is the time of someone's life where this issue often becomes evident), it is important to explore what process is happening, considering that sexuality during this time period can be both fluid and confusing. In my experience, the evaluation/determination phase takes about 3-6 months, though it can be variable. In my practice, 50% of the clients I have worked with who stated that they were transgendered, actually were. Now, does this mean the other 50% were lying? No. it meant that other things were going on that presented themselves with this thought-process/behavior, and once these things were uncovered, the individual no longer believed that they were the "wrong gender". In the other 50% of the cases, the evaluation determined that they were transgendered.

    An important note is that Gender Identity Disorder, the APA's analogy for transgenderism has been declassified as a disorder in the DSM-V, just released last month. The new diagnosis would be Gender Dysphoric Disorder, a much more accurate term, indicating that someone is dysphoric about the conflict between their anatomical gender and their "brain" gender, NOT that this conflict itself is a disorder. After the evaluation phase, this diagnosis would either remain (if transgenderism is the conclusion) or would become a secondary diagnosis to whatever was uncovered if transgenderism was NOT the conclusion reached.

    After transgenderism has been determined, continued counseling is key, first to assist the individual with any secondary psychological disorders. As should be apparent, anxiety disorders are very common, with concerns around telling others, their reactions, and future prospects in many areas. Exploration of a support system (key for success) is discussed and determined as is the individual's goals. Not all transgenders choose HRT or SRS. At this point, family members and/or other important people would be included (if appropriate) in the individual's issue. Now, notice... if you look at what I've written, quite some time occurs between revelation and presentation. NEXT, processing with the individual and their family/friends occurs (if appropriate). I am in this particular stage with one of my clients... and have been for over 18 months. No changes have occurred during this processing as it would be inappropriate. Notice again... none of this is immediate and none of it is done without the inclusion of people important to the transgendered individual's life.

    An important footnote to this. >95% of all transgendered individuals who want SRS and go through SRS are psychologically symptom free after the surgery. It is truly a "cure" if one could use that word in this set if circumstances. This highlights the opposing consideration. An individual with GDD who is transsexual and DOESN'T get HRT, SRS or both will suffer from psychological issues that could both be debilitating and/or damaging, things that could affect their family either indirectly or directly. In these cases, it might be FAR more beneficial to the family structure in the long term for the individual to get SRS and more damaging to the family if they don't. Cuts both ways.

    So, to answer Chris's question, yes, it will have an impact, but NO it will not be destructive since it is not immediate and if it is handled appropriately. The damage could be from how it's handled, of course, but it could also be from it NOT being dealt with at all.

    As I have said repeatedly, this is NOT a simple issue that a quick one-liner will resolve. It's quite complex.
    It COULD be immediate for the children. The children might have NO idea about what is going on in their parent's head. Then one day, he springs this on them. You can't say this doesn't happen. How can you say we don't understand? Just because we haven't dealt with this PARTICULAR issue does NOT mean we haven't had extremely difficult issues to deal with within our families. And no, none of things you posted above PROVE to me that this is not a psychiatric or a psychological disorder.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I hope this suffices. I am taking this from a post I made back in 2010:
    Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time.

    The causes of transexualism are not completely known. This is not an issue that has been studied, extensively. However, recently, there have been studies using MRI's and exploring the limbic system that have demonstrated some potential causality. Both genetics and biology have been considered as links.
    This is what I'm talking about. So far we have theories. No causative links.

    Much of the information regarding the studies done on the causes of transsexualism are highly technical in nature. I will attempt to explain them in layman's terms"

    A study done in 2000 examined the part of the brain that identifies gender identity... the central subdivision of the bed-nucleus of the stria terminalis or BSTc for short. They examined the somatostatin (SOM), a hormone, neurons. What they found was this. Males have 3-4 times the amount of SOM neurons than females do. This is regardless of sexual orientation; homosexual males were similar to males just as homosexual females were similar to females. However, when examining the SOM neurons of transsexuals, they found that FTM (females who claimed to be male) SOM neurons were in the MALE range while MTF (males who claimed to be females) SOM neurons were in the FEMALE range. They examined people who had hormone treatment, who had not, who had sex reassignment surgery, and who had not. Didn't matter. The SOM neuron levels remained the same. Also irrelevant was when the individual indicated their transsexualism. This gives indication that whatever the cause, it occurs while the individual develops in the womb.

    Link to the actual study and links to other information used:

    Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus -- Kruijver et al. 85 (5): 2034 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
    Male to Female Transsexual Individuals have Female Neuron Numbers in the Central Subdivision of the Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis - Tara's Transgender Resources
    About the studies, 42 people is a very small sample. Also, in the discussion section, it explains how this is NOT a causative link because there are so many other factors involved, like the fact that a lot of the people were on hormones. One subject had an orchiectomy. These things can change hormone levels as well. Also, wouldn't a hormonal type disorder be easily treatable?

    I'm not sure about the neurological aspect. I'm certainly not a neurologist and know little about that aspect, but the sample size is pretty small in this particular study.


    There also may be a DNA link to transsexualism. In a 2008 study, researchers discovered that MTF transsexuals have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene which causes weaker testosterone signals... similar to that of females.

    Link to that information:

    BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

    The first study that I posted has been reproduced and is being used to explore the answers to a numbers of questions about human sexual development. In fact, three other researchers have produced result similar or MORE profound to the Kruijver study. Here is a link to the abstract of a more recent study that confirms what Kruijver found:

    A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus:... [Brain. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI

    If we are talking about biological gender development, we all know that an XX person is female and an XY person is male. However, what this creates is the anatomical differences between males and females. It does NOT impact the brain and hormone level development. It is theorized that in transsexuals, hormone surges, often occurring in the 3rd month of pregnancy occur in the opposite fashion as would typically occur. An XX fetus might get the hormonal surge, whereas an XY might not. This can account for the differences in the BSTc SOM receptors. There is some discussion that this may be caused by hormones or other medications ingested during pregnancy, such as DES, but there is no conclusive evidence surrounding this. What is clear is that a transsexual's brain-hormonal pathways operate similar to the sex opposite to what they are anatomically.

    Things to consider when discussing transsexualism. Firstly, though there is a strong connection between the differentiation in BSTc SOM neurons and gender identity, the mechanisms that create gender are complex and not completely understood; the brain is still a very complicated organ.

    Secondly, cases of children who may have had some genital abnormality at birth, and were "reassigned" to the opposite sex for cosmetic reasons at that time, retained their chromosomal identity. In other words, if a boy was born without a penis, but with testicles, and he was castrated a brought up as a girl, he would retain his gender identity and STILL identify as a boy. A study done with children like this found that all eventually presented as male, not female as they were raised. This gives credence to the idea that transsexualism is NOT socially or environmentally driven.

    Hopkins research shows nature, not nurture, determines gender

    Thirdly, it has been found that true transsexual people cannot be "cured" though psychiatry or psychology. This is NOT a mental disorder, but an inconsistency between brain-hormonal functioning/structure and chromosomal anatomy.

    Further links that provided information for this post:

    http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/Resea...s/etiology.pdf
    Transsexuality
    Transsexualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I would like to see a larger sampling of people. All of the studies were great and full of useful information, don't get me wrong, but they are certainly not conclusive of anything. None of these studies definitively rule out a psychiatric or psychological basis.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I go home from work and what happens? Ignorant statements abound. Let me address a few things. Firstly, Chris brings up the point that it is "selfish" for someone with children to present that they are transgendered and begin HRT and SRS. This is a very simplistic view of a complex issue... something that runs rampant in this thread, especially from those who demonstrate their ignorance on this topic (some of whom I have already called out on this), but also from some people who should know better. How would someone presenting that they are transgendered and beginning HRT and/or SRS affect one's family and children? It would affect them, and it is silly to think that it wouldn't. It is a major alteration in the family structure and in parts of the person's identity and behaviors. Would it be devastating and destructive? Not necessarily. Most of you have no idea what happens with someone who is transgendered. Seems to me that a few of you believe that one day, a person wakes up and says "I'm not a man, I'm a woman", tells everyone, and then, the next day goes in for surgery. That is ridiculous. Let me explain how it happens.

    Full disclosure. For those of you who don't know, I am a psychotherapist and have been for 20+ years. I have a private practice and specialize on adolescent issues. I am one of the few therapists in my area who treats folks with transgenderism. What happens when someone walks into my office and says "I'm transgendered"? Do I immediately say, "Yes, you are". No, not at all. That is against the standards of practice. The first thing I must do is determine if someone is transgendered or if they have some other psychosexual/psychological disorder. ESPECIALLY with adolescents (which is the time of someone's life where this issue often becomes evident), it is important to explore what process is happening, considering that sexuality during this time period can be both fluid and confusing. In my experience, the evaluation/determination phase takes about 3-6 months, though it can be variable. In my practice, 50% of the clients I have worked with who stated that they were transgendered, actually were. Now, does this mean the other 50% were lying? No. it meant that other things were going on that presented themselves with this thought-process/behavior, and once these things were uncovered, the individual no longer believed that they were the "wrong gender". In the other 50% of the cases, the evaluation determined that they were transgendered.

    An important note is that Gender Identity Disorder, the APA's analogy for transgenderism has been declassified as a disorder in the DSM-V, just released last month. The new diagnosis would be Gender Dysphoric Disorder, a much more accurate term, indicating that someone is dysphoric about the conflict between their anatomical gender and their "brain" gender, NOT that this conflict itself is a disorder. After the evaluation phase, this diagnosis would either remain (if transgenderism is the conclusion) or would become a secondary diagnosis to whatever was uncovered if transgenderism was NOT the conclusion reached.

    After transgenderism has been determined, continued counseling is key, first to assist the individual with any secondary psychological disorders. As should be apparent, anxiety disorders are very common, with concerns around telling others, their reactions, and future prospects in many areas. Exploration of a support system (key for success) is discussed and determined as is the individual's goals. Not all transgenders choose HRT or SRS. At this point, family members and/or other important people would be included (if appropriate) in the individual's issue. Now, notice... if you look at what I've written, quite some time occurs between revelation and presentation. NEXT, processing with the individual and their family/friends occurs (if appropriate). I am in this particular stage with one of my clients... and have been for over 18 months. No changes have occurred during this processing as it would be inappropriate. Notice again... none of this is immediate and none of it is done without the inclusion of people important to the transgendered individual's life.

    An important footnote to this. >95% of all transgendered individuals who want SRS and go through SRS are psychologically symptom free after the surgery. It is truly a "cure" if one could use that word in this set if circumstances. This highlights the opposing consideration. An individual with GDD who is transsexual and DOESN'T get HRT, SRS or both will suffer from psychological issues that could both be debilitating and/or damaging, things that could affect their family either indirectly or directly. In these cases, it might be FAR more beneficial to the family structure in the long term for the individual to get SRS and more damaging to the family if they don't. Cuts both ways.

    So, to answer Chris's question, yes, it will have an impact, but NO it will not be destructive since it is not immediate and if it is handled appropriately. The damage could be from how it's handled, of course, but it could also be from it NOT being dealt with at all.

    As I have said repeatedly, this is NOT a simple issue that a quick one-liner will resolve. It's quite complex.
    Do you feel better now?

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    The reproductive system's function is implicit in the name. A tranny doesn't have a working set of ovaries or testicles for their desired gender, hence can't reproduce as such. Even more simple, fake is fake.
    That isn't actually even needed since the only thing they really gain is developed breasts. The vagina they craft is as a described it earlier, but its still worth the effort to say it's still pretty damn impressive what they doctors are able to do.

    Have fun looking up vaginoplasty penile inversion technique. I would link to information but it has about 100% chance having something on it that could get me infracted.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-09-13 at 12:46 PM.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    No, she is a she, period.
    Well she has a penis... Just sayin. "She" cant be going into the ladies bathrooms legally or I'ma' start wearing a dress.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Congrats Captain on finally posting your brain argument. I was awaiting for you to have to fall back on that.

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It COULD be immediate for the children.The children might have NO idea about what is going on in their parent's head. Then one day, he springs this on them.
    ANYTHING would be immediate for the children... divorce, an illness, money problems, moving, etc... That does NOT equate to "devastating" or "destructive".


    You can't say this doesn't happen.
    I never did.

    How can you say we don't understand? Just because we haven't dealt with this PARTICULAR issue does NOT mean we haven't had extremely difficult issues to deal with within our families.
    Because you don't by how you post. This is not a binary issue... it's not either all fine and happy or devastating and destructive and it remains that way. If you think it's black or white, then you don't understand the issue.

    And no, none of things you posted above PROVE to me that this is not a psychiatric or a psychological disorder.
    Experts and those in the psychological community... who would know... say it is not. Your denial is irrelevant.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Congrats Captain on finally posting your brain argument. I was awaiting for you to have to fall back on that.
    Didn't have to "fall" back on it. It supports my position quite well... and is a whole lot more than anything you've posted.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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