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Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

:dohPlease go more in depth..

Better yet, may I suggest that you go to some of the South African forums and do a little snoop and pooping. I'm sure SA has a version of their own DP. Join their fourms and ask questions like "Please go more in depth."

Go to some of the SA blogs and newspaper websites and read the comments.

You have a computer in front of you and what do you think the WWW at the begaining of an URL means ? World Wide Web.
You might be surprised what people have to say.
 
Better yet, may I suggest that you go to some of the South African forums and do a little snoop and pooping. I'm sure SA has a version of their own DP. Join their fourms and ask questions like "Please go more in depth."

Go to some of the SA blogs and newspaper websites and read the comments.

You have a computer in front of you and what do you think the WWW at the begaining of an URL means ? World Wide Web.
You might be surprised what people have to say.

Reality check. South Africa isnt socialist. Was Mandela is a social democrat, he and the ANC to chance the economic landscape that the apartheid government left them was to adapt to market friendly policies, that were also more social friendly, through the Reconstruction and Development Programme (RDP) to Growth, Employment, and Redistribution (GEAR). None of which were socialist, they are are generally social democratic reforms and mixed market.
 
If the USA had freed South Africa from the Apartheid regime the end result wouldn't have been that different as it is today. It takes decades to undo centuries of colonialist oppression.

Ever since the ottoman empire was weakening and retreating, Serbs, Montenegroans, Bulgarians, and Greeks started colonizing Albanian lands. Especially the Serbs asked for proof of ownership of land that had nothing to do with the 500 year ottoman rule whom very little had. Albanians as ancient natives to these lands were forced out of their lands and dislocated to Serbia, Turkiye, and other parts of the world, while Serbs, Montenegrians moved in with very favorable conditions.

This largely occurred in the beginning of the 20th century in Dardania. They planned to increase their population here while kicking us out of here and claim the lands as their own. After struggle, in between 2 wars (1st and 2ns WW), the last war in 1998 and 1999 only to put an end to it in the end of the 20th century with NATO intervention in 1999. Ironically we are purchasing our own lands (taken by force then) back from Serbs today, sometimes at high prices, and sometimes with swindlers as negotiators also.

You can understand the prejudice between us and Serbs on such grounds (some of it may be real!). But we do not generalize from this! Just because our neighbors used the political perspective of the time and tried to score at our demise, not all Slavs (Neighbors and Russians excluded) or much less non-Slavs have such intentions!

Why are some Afrikans so racist even towards me? We have been surviving since B.C from neighboring European countries here in Dardania, what the hell did we had to do apertheid?
 
Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition'
It's sad to hear that the scumbag didn't die.
 
I've been to many countries but not South Africa. I do not have to go there to understand what is going on there.

Still, if Jet lives there he has more insight about how things are compared to you.
 
I'm sure those that are so upset over the demise of another racist cried when Mao died too. Maybe even OBL's departure to his 72 virgins.

Tell me, how does blatantly misrepresenting someone feel? Blatantly lying and extreme partisanship - what're those like? You're gonna need quite a few camels for the loads of straw arguments you've been building.

What Mao, OBL and Mandela have in common are they are not white,

I see another Stormfront member seeped in. Damn.

they are anti-American, anti-Christianity....possibly even Mandela.

You realize those positions aren't placed on a pedestal, right? Being an Amerian Christian isn't "right," it's just another position, like Iranian Muslim, or Chinese Buddhist. And, Mao, OBL, and Mandela have in common are possibly Mandela? Can you explain that? Also wanna explain how saying "America is a threat to World Peace" is anti-American? If anything, that's saying we have quite a bit of control of World Affairs, which should be a compliment. But I digress, I will probably get a hackish reply in return that contains no remote chance of intellectual honesty.
 
Can anyone even explain how he is a "scumbag"!?

Ronald Reagan looked upon Mandela as being something like a scumbag but said in his diary he couldn't explain why, he just didn't like him.

It's just natural not to like socialist be they communist or #####. oops, I almost violated a mid-thread warning.

Note: It's really diffrent now knowing what a [W:##] is.
 
Ronald Reagan looked upon Mandela as being something like a scumbag but said in his diary he couldn't explain why, he just didn't like him.

It's just natural not to like socialist be they communist or #####. oops, I almost violated a mid-thread warning.

Note: It's really diffrent now knowing what a [W:##] is.

Oh so he is a scumbag all because the might and all knowing Ronald Reagan thought he was a terrorist? I mean hey i guess being a peaceful man calling for an end to a racist regime is a "terrorist" then ****, i guess MLK was a terrorist cuz i mean he did the same thing pretty much and also considered himself a socialist. :roll: But hey so much for the freedom right?
 
Oh so he is a scumbag all because the might and all knowing Ronald Reagan thought he was a terrorist? I mean hey i guess being a peaceful man calling for an end to a racist regime is a "terrorist" then ****, i guess MLK was a terrorist cuz i mean he did the same thing pretty much and also considered himself a socialist. :roll: But hey so much for the freedom right?

Ronald Reagan never said that Mandela was a terrorist. If you read "The Reagan Diaries" he says that he can't explain why he doesn't like Mandela, he just doesn't like him.

As for MLK, when MLK was alive, the majority of Americans didn't like him either. It was JFK and RFK who ordered the FBI to wiretap MLK's phones.

If you were to young or weren't born yet, after MLK death, the schools indoctrinated the students that MLK was a hero. For us who were around back then remember MLK differently. But over the decades through revisionist history and threats and intimidation's Americans were forced to accept MLK as a hero. States that refused to recognise MLK birthday as an official holiday were threaten with boycotts. Remember that ?

But go down to a decent library and go through the archives of newspapers and see what most Americans thought of MLK during the 1960's.

Here's a good starting point. -> www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/public-perspective/ppscan/62/62011.pdf
 
I did.

He murdered people and he is a racist. He destroyed the country of South Africa.

Could I have some direct examples of people Mandela is supposed to have murdered?

Your wrong Bonzai. Your talking about a place and people you have no knowledge of or have never visited.

South Africa like Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) are failed socialist states.

OK - a claim that South Africa has been destroyed financially or otherwise needs to be backed up. Here's a 2006 review of the first 10 years - after this review (and if you check the World Bank figures) growth rose at a much higher rate than the first 10 years which themselves showed nothing but continued economic growth.

All I can see is World Bank and IMF statistics showing continual growth of approx 3-5% in GDP since 1994. If you wish to go further back there's a nice little Google visualisation graph based on World Bank figures here which show a continual upwards trajectory in GDP since 1960 to this year. Next year - economic growth is projected to be between 2.2% and 4% (down from the internal projection of 5%)

Can either of you explain how South Africa (a G20 country) has been "destroyed" or a failed socialist state please? Some links would be good too.

Here are mine for you to pull apart.

OECD economic assessment of South Africa - 1994 to 2008

OECD 2013 Economic Survey
 
Mandela was not a communist? Did he stand aside the South African Communist Party? Yes for political reasons, because they both wish to end apartheid. Does that make him a communist? No! Mandela was a social-democrat and a brave gentleman and a great hero and a great man.

As I understand it, the ANC was forced into a temporary marriage of convenience with communism due to the way Cold War circumstances were stacked against them. Ideologically, the ANC would have preferred being aligned with America as it embraced our values of government at the consent of the governed, freedom, and one man one vote. However WE basically chose not to be their friends until the very end of the anti-apartheid struggle, which interestingly was in my opinion what it took to ultimately end apartheid.

During the Cold War our government made the strategic decision to align ourselves with the apartheid government. Why? Good question. Nuclear arms. South Africa has significant uranium deposits, a key igredient in nuclear weapons. The apartheid government had much in common with America in terms of economy and economic modeling. Back then the boogie man was communism and since supporting STABILITY was the all important factor in US foreign policy, we felt supporting the apartheid regime was the best way to keep South African uranium out of the hands of the Soviets. The ANC, gravely disappointed I'll add, saw America as being unfriendly toward them turned to communist alliances. As much as the ideals of the ANC are more reflective of American values, Fidel Castro actually did more to bring equality and freedom to South Africa than Anerica until the very end. South Africans remember America's lack of support for such a long time and you see it bizarre comments from various South African leaders occasionally. There is resentment but they work to suppress it in consideration of the current international dynamic.

What saved South Africa from going communist is timing. Democracy and the end of apartheid coincided with the fall of the Soviet Union. The new government looked at their situation, saw what was in the best interest of South Africa and chose to forgive America but in their own best interests. They also wisely chose to treat South Africa's white run economic pillars and corporate institutions in as friendly manner as possible. Today, the South African stock market is as strong most Western European securities markets and I think stronger than most. They have a modern first world infrustructure with skyscrapers, electrical and communications grids, highway systems and major retail outlets including the largest indoor shopping mall in the Southern Hemisphere that also doubles as a theme park that employes technology I haven't even seen in America. You walk through the entrances and your smart phone will sense where you are in the mall and send you texts letting you know what stores are coming up and what's on sale nearby. Both Oprah Winfrey and Bill Gates have homes there and before her passing, Margart Thatcher lived there in the UK winter months.
 
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But he was born and raised in South Africa.

And still has many family there.

And has enough insight to know who's full of ****.

How old were you when you moved to BC? 12?
 
Moderator's Warning:
There'a topic here and it's not Jet. I suggest you get back on it.
 
Something you said is exactly what happened in America in the early 70's. >"the Communists were forced to go underground and only re-emerge with the more moderate of the left."< In America those Marxist, the "New Left", the fringe of the left came under the Democrat Party and hid behind the label of calling themselves liberal and later on some calling themselves progressives. They are neither, just hiding behinde labels.

But I digress.
South Africa is a beautiful country. Those white South Africans call themselfs and are known as Afrikanans. And they love their country.
There are enclaves with in South Africa's cities that are upper class and middle class that are safe. And today there are black middle class neighborhoods. South Africa has a extremely high crime rate, but it's mostly black on black crime. They don't #### with the Afrikanans, they are too well armed. And the corruption of the NAC puts Mexico to shame.

Why doesn't the American MSM report on what's been going on in South Africa ? Probably because back in the 1980's it was the liberals in America who supported the Soviet Union and the ANC and helped put the socialist terrorist in power. Come to think of it, in Barack Obama's book, "Dreams From My Father" Obama mentions being part of the radical left during the 80's and being behind supporting the communist terrorist in South Africa.

I have a good story to tell of my own experiances in Rohdesia and South Africa, but don't really want to get in to it right now. Has to do with muders and rapes by communist terrorist of someone I really loved.

Excerpts from the CSM:

>" “Crime is high [in South Africa] but the reputation for crime is much higher,” says Matthew McKeever, an associate professor of sociology at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, Ma. who studies social inequality in southern Africa. “People think of it as much more violent than it really is.”

That widespread belief is in part a legacy of the country’s bumpy transition to democracy, which saw an explosion in violence across the country in the late 1980s and early 1990s. South Africa’s murder rate in 1995, the year after Nelson Mandela assumed the presidency, was 64.9 per 100,000 – nearly twice its current figure and thirteen times the present rate in the United States.

There remains at least one category of violent crime, however, where South Africa is still a global frontrunner: rape. There were 64,000 reported cases of rape last year, which experts say is likely a fraction of the true total. In one 2010 government survey, one in three South African men questioned admitted to raping at least one woman in his lifetime and one in four women said she had been the victim of a rape...

Are things getting any better?

That depends who you ask. Those with means in South Africa can now do a great deal to buy their safety. The crime wave of the 1980s and ‘90s gave rise to a kind of security industrial complex in the country – creating a voracious demand for the high tech alarms, security systems, and electrified fences that are now second nature to wealthy South Africans of all colors.

As of 2011, there were more than 400,000 private security guards in South Africa, compared with just over 200,000 police officers, and one in 14 newly created jobs in the country is for a security guard. It is telling that when Pistorius made his first call for help on the morning Steenkamp died, it was not to the police, but to the security guards in his housing complex."<
Briefing: How violent is South Africa? - CSMonitor.com

I think we are now somewhat in agreement as we both say South Africa is getting better. There is one thing you are missing about the Whites in that there are two different groups Afrikaners and Anglo-Africans there is a rivalry between the two groups and the only thing that really united them was apartheid. Apartheid was organically conceived as a way to get more votes instead of getting either group you get both by uniting because of the fact they are white. Rhodesia I do agree is a failed state but not even remotely close to real socialist but rather African socialist which is just a another word for massive corruption as conceived by several prominent African leaders after the end of colonialism. After Mandela retired the ANC became a black party that didn't even try to fight for equality but there is an opposition that does. South Africa's future would progress even faster under the leadership of the DA which as shown by the government of Cape Town and the Western Cape where they dramatically increased the number of police officers, reduced crime by over 90%, all while balancing the budget. Zuma is the one who disposed of the anti-rape and anti-corruption units but again all the opposition parties want to restore them. TO reduce rape you need to at least be trying to do something about it but sadly they got rid of the anti-rape unit.
 
But he was born and raised in South Africa.

And still has many family there.

And has enough insight to know who's full of ****.

There you go apdst. His insight is far more valuable by that much compared to yours.

Getting back to topic though. Who can substitute someone as Mandela if he does not returns from the hospital this time?
 
-- Who can substitute someone as Mandela if he does not returns from the hospital this time?

The good thing about this series of prolonged hospitalisations is that people have become used to the idea of him going - he's not held Presidential power since 1999 and not done much public speaking for several years now.

Actually, I'm nobody to be lecturing anybody. I was just thinking how those "witch is dead" comments immediately after Thatcher died seemed pretty cold.

It's not inconceivable for people to have admired Thatcher AND Mandela, neither of these people were monsters nor did they murder anyone.
 
There you go apdst. His insight is far more valuable by that much compared to yours.

Getting back to topic though. Who can substitute someone as Mandela if he does not returns from the hospital this time?

Mandella was replaced years ago.
 
Ronald Reagan never said that Mandela was a terrorist. If you read "The Reagan Diaries" he says that he can't explain why he doesn't like Mandela, he just doesn't like him.
Reagan put the ANC on the terrorist list back in the 80's. Mandela was a member of the ANC..

Anyways who cares that Reagan "didnt like Mandela" what does that have to do with anything, especially if he is a socialist or not?


As for MLK, when MLK was alive, the majority of Americans didn't like him either. It was JFK and RFK who ordered the FBI to wiretap MLK's phones.
Ok i know this. Point being?

If you were to young or weren't born yet, after MLK death, the schools indoctrinated the students that MLK was a hero. For us who were around back then remember MLK differently. But over the decades through revisionist history and threats and intimidation's Americans were forced to accept MLK as a hero. States that refused to recognise MLK birthday as an official holiday were threaten with boycotts. Remember that ?
I remember a nice little picture being painted of MLK. MLK was a socialist and a freedom fighter and a civil rights leader. The only leson they teach in schools tho is that he was a civil rights leader. But hey thats good tho right? Civil rights a good thing?


But go down to a decent library and go through the archives of newspapers and see what most Americans thought of MLK during the 1960's.

Here's a good starting point. -> www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/public-perspective/ppscan/62/62011.pdf

This isnt about MLK.... This is about Mandela.

But still waiting on how South Africa is a "failed socialist state"..
 
Reagan put the ANC on the terrorist list back in the 80's. Mandela was a member of the ANC..

Anyways who cares that Reagan "didnt like Mandela" what does that have to do with anything, especially if he is a socialist or not?



Ok i know this. Point being?


I remember a nice little picture being painted of MLK. MLK was a socialist and a freedom fighter and a civil rights leader. The only leson they teach in schools tho is that he was a civil rights leader. But hey thats good tho right? Civil rights a good thing?




This isnt about MLK.... This is about Mandela.

But still waiting on how South Africa is a "failed socialist state"..

Any time a country has to destroy it's nuclear weapons because there's a change of government coming, it's a dead giveaway.
When a government can't protect it's people and crime is rampant and the upper and middle class have to arm themselves, dead giveaway.
When a government is as corrupt as Mexico, dead giveaway.
When the U.S. State Department has to keep issuing wide-ranging Travel Alerts for South Africa, dead giveaway.
 
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