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Thread: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh so he is a scumbag all because the might and all knowing Ronald Reagan thought he was a terrorist? I mean hey i guess being a peaceful man calling for an end to a racist regime is a "terrorist" then ****, i guess MLK was a terrorist cuz i mean he did the same thing pretty much and also considered himself a socialist. But hey so much for the freedom right?
    Ronald Reagan never said that Mandela was a terrorist. If you read "The Reagan Diaries" he says that he can't explain why he doesn't like Mandela, he just doesn't like him.

    As for MLK, when MLK was alive, the majority of Americans didn't like him either. It was JFK and RFK who ordered the FBI to wiretap MLK's phones.

    If you were to young or weren't born yet, after MLK death, the schools indoctrinated the students that MLK was a hero. For us who were around back then remember MLK differently. But over the decades through revisionist history and threats and intimidation's Americans were forced to accept MLK as a hero. States that refused to recognise MLK birthday as an official holiday were threaten with boycotts. Remember that ?

    But go down to a decent library and go through the archives of newspapers and see what most Americans thought of MLK during the 1960's.

    Here's a good starting point. -> http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/pub...n/62/62011.pdf

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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    I did.

    He murdered people and he is a racist. He destroyed the country of South Africa.
    Could I have some direct examples of people Mandela is supposed to have murdered?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Your wrong Bonzai. Your talking about a place and people you have no knowledge of or have never visited.

    South Africa like Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) are failed socialist states.
    OK - a claim that South Africa has been destroyed financially or otherwise needs to be backed up. Here's a 2006 review of the first 10 years - after this review (and if you check the World Bank figures) growth rose at a much higher rate than the first 10 years which themselves showed nothing but continued economic growth.

    All I can see is World Bank and IMF statistics showing continual growth of approx 3-5% in GDP since 1994. If you wish to go further back there's a nice little Google visualisation graph based on World Bank figures here which show a continual upwards trajectory in GDP since 1960 to this year. Next year - economic growth is projected to be between 2.2% and 4% (down from the internal projection of 5%)

    Can either of you explain how South Africa (a G20 country) has been "destroyed" or a failed socialist state please? Some links would be good too.

    Here are mine for you to pull apart.

    OECD economic assessment of South Africa - 1994 to 2008

    OECD 2013 Economic Survey

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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Mandela was not a communist? Did he stand aside the South African Communist Party? Yes for political reasons, because they both wish to end apartheid. Does that make him a communist? No! Mandela was a social-democrat and a brave gentleman and a great hero and a great man.
    As I understand it, the ANC was forced into a temporary marriage of convenience with communism due to the way Cold War circumstances were stacked against them. Ideologically, the ANC would have preferred being aligned with America as it embraced our values of government at the consent of the governed, freedom, and one man one vote. However WE basically chose not to be their friends until the very end of the anti-apartheid struggle, which interestingly was in my opinion what it took to ultimately end apartheid.

    During the Cold War our government made the strategic decision to align ourselves with the apartheid government. Why? Good question. Nuclear arms. South Africa has significant uranium deposits, a key igredient in nuclear weapons. The apartheid government had much in common with America in terms of economy and economic modeling. Back then the boogie man was communism and since supporting STABILITY was the all important factor in US foreign policy, we felt supporting the apartheid regime was the best way to keep South African uranium out of the hands of the Soviets. The ANC, gravely disappointed I'll add, saw America as being unfriendly toward them turned to communist alliances. As much as the ideals of the ANC are more reflective of American values, Fidel Castro actually did more to bring equality and freedom to South Africa than Anerica until the very end. South Africans remember America's lack of support for such a long time and you see it bizarre comments from various South African leaders occasionally. There is resentment but they work to suppress it in consideration of the current international dynamic.

    What saved South Africa from going communist is timing. Democracy and the end of apartheid coincided with the fall of the Soviet Union. The new government looked at their situation, saw what was in the best interest of South Africa and chose to forgive America but in their own best interests. They also wisely chose to treat South Africa's white run economic pillars and corporate institutions in as friendly manner as possible. Today, the South African stock market is as strong most Western European securities markets and I think stronger than most. They have a modern first world infrustructure with skyscrapers, electrical and communications grids, highway systems and major retail outlets including the largest indoor shopping mall in the Southern Hemisphere that also doubles as a theme park that employes technology I haven't even seen in America. You walk through the entrances and your smart phone will sense where you are in the mall and send you texts letting you know what stores are coming up and what's on sale nearby. Both Oprah Winfrey and Bill Gates have homes there and before her passing, Margart Thatcher lived there in the UK winter months.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 06-09-13 at 10:13 AM.
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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Still, if Jet lives there he has more insight about how things are compared to you.
    Jet lives in Canada.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Jet les in Canada.
    But he was born and raised in South Africa.

    And still has many family there.

    And has enough insight to know who's full of ****.

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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But he was born and raised in South Africa.

    And still has many family there.

    And has enough insight to know who's full of ****.
    How old were you when you moved to BC? 12?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Moderator's Warning:
    Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]There'a topic here and it's not Jet. I suggest you get back on it.

  8. #118
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    Re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Something you said is exactly what happened in America in the early 70's. >"the Communists were forced to go underground and only re-emerge with the more moderate of the left."< In America those Marxist, the "New Left", the fringe of the left came under the Democrat Party and hid behind the label of calling themselves liberal and later on some calling themselves progressives. They are neither, just hiding behinde labels.

    But I digress.
    South Africa is a beautiful country. Those white South Africans call themselfs and are known as Afrikanans. And they love their country.
    There are enclaves with in South Africa's cities that are upper class and middle class that are safe. And today there are black middle class neighborhoods. South Africa has a extremely high crime rate, but it's mostly black on black crime. They don't #### with the Afrikanans, they are too well armed. And the corruption of the NAC puts Mexico to shame.

    Why doesn't the American MSM report on what's been going on in South Africa ? Probably because back in the 1980's it was the liberals in America who supported the Soviet Union and the ANC and helped put the socialist terrorist in power. Come to think of it, in Barack Obama's book, "Dreams From My Father" Obama mentions being part of the radical left during the 80's and being behind supporting the communist terrorist in South Africa.

    I have a good story to tell of my own experiances in Rohdesia and South Africa, but don't really want to get in to it right now. Has to do with muders and rapes by communist terrorist of someone I really loved.

    Excerpts from the CSM:

    >" “Crime is high [in South Africa] but the reputation for crime is much higher,” says Matthew McKeever, an associate professor of sociology at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, Ma. who studies social inequality in southern Africa. “People think of it as much more violent than it really is.”

    That widespread belief is in part a legacy of the country’s bumpy transition to democracy, which saw an explosion in violence across the country in the late 1980s and early 1990s. South Africa’s murder rate in 1995, the year after Nelson Mandela assumed the presidency, was 64.9 per 100,000 – nearly twice its current figure and thirteen times the present rate in the United States.

    There remains at least one category of violent crime, however, where South Africa is still a global frontrunner: rape. There were 64,000 reported cases of rape last year, which experts say is likely a fraction of the true total. In one 2010 government survey, one in three South African men questioned admitted to raping at least one woman in his lifetime and one in four women said she had been the victim of a rape...

    Are things getting any better?

    That depends who you ask. Those with means in South Africa can now do a great deal to buy their safety. The crime wave of the 1980s and ‘90s gave rise to a kind of security industrial complex in the country – creating a voracious demand for the high tech alarms, security systems, and electrified fences that are now second nature to wealthy South Africans of all colors.

    As of 2011, there were more than 400,000 private security guards in South Africa, compared with just over 200,000 police officers, and one in 14 newly created jobs in the country is for a security guard. It is telling that when Pistorius made his first call for help on the morning Steenkamp died, it was not to the police, but to the security guards in his housing complex."<
    Briefing: How violent is South Africa? - CSMonitor.com
    I think we are now somewhat in agreement as we both say South Africa is getting better. There is one thing you are missing about the Whites in that there are two different groups Afrikaners and Anglo-Africans there is a rivalry between the two groups and the only thing that really united them was apartheid. Apartheid was organically conceived as a way to get more votes instead of getting either group you get both by uniting because of the fact they are white. Rhodesia I do agree is a failed state but not even remotely close to real socialist but rather African socialist which is just a another word for massive corruption as conceived by several prominent African leaders after the end of colonialism. After Mandela retired the ANC became a black party that didn't even try to fight for equality but there is an opposition that does. South Africa's future would progress even faster under the leadership of the DA which as shown by the government of Cape Town and the Western Cape where they dramatically increased the number of police officers, reduced crime by over 90%, all while balancing the budget. Zuma is the one who disposed of the anti-rape and anti-corruption units but again all the opposition parties want to restore them. TO reduce rape you need to at least be trying to do something about it but sadly they got rid of the anti-rape unit.

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    Re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But he was born and raised in South Africa.

    And still has many family there.

    And has enough insight to know who's full of ****.
    There you go apdst. His insight is far more valuable by that much compared to yours.

    Getting back to topic though. Who can substitute someone as Mandela if he does not returns from the hospital this time?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    -- Who can substitute someone as Mandela if he does not returns from the hospital this time?
    The good thing about this series of prolonged hospitalisations is that people have become used to the idea of him going - he's not held Presidential power since 1999 and not done much public speaking for several years now.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Actually, I'm nobody to be lecturing anybody. I was just thinking how those "witch is dead" comments immediately after Thatcher died seemed pretty cold.
    It's not inconceivable for people to have admired Thatcher AND Mandela, neither of these people were monsters nor did they murder anyone.

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