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10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

It was in response to school officials claiming the parents aren't doing their job. For the most part...school brawls and teenagers fighting is very normal.

not like that. And yes, lack of parental involvement tends to be a particular issue within african american communities

And while the above isn't exactly PC, we can continue to act as if all cultures and groups perform equally and suffer from the same issues, or we can be realistic and note that they actually do not. Why that is is another matter entirely
 
So of course it is liberals that cause all the problems in Chicago(but none of the good), whether there is any relation to politics, whether these things happen in other places as well, despite the fact that J-Mac cannot actually identify a cause, but by god it is the liberals fault because he knows it is, he has faith!

Well, whadda ya expect when you have leadership such as this...

“My gut tells me..." - Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.)




Also note how, 'the culture of...' is being intertwined into conversations.
 
not like that. And yes, lack of parental involvement tends to be a particular issue within african american communities

And while the above isn't exactly PC, we can continue to act as if all cultures and groups perform equally and suffer from the same issues, or we can be realistic and note that they actually do not. Why that is is another matter entirely

Well, there are some cultural differences in some cases regarding emphasis on education at some times. To claim that's the root of the problem makes little sense since it's not even a measured (or measurable) statistic.

I think it's probably fairer to say that families that are poor tend to have worse educational outcomes than families that are rich, and maybe we should be focusing on how to bring prosperity to those families -- rather than blaming them and rather than pursuing policies that overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy.

But we all know the OP has a rather ugly agenda which isn't about urging the black community to emphasize education more.
 
Well, whadda ya expect when you have leadership such as this...

“My gut tells me..." - Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.)




Also note how, 'the culture of...' is being intertwined into conversations.

Exactly. It's conservative code. Are there ANY statistics that indicate that what's really the problem in inner city schools is a culture that doesn't emphasize education? I doubt it. I think the real issue is far simpler and far more damning for conservative ideology: poor people have a hard time educating their children without resources and without the time to dedicate to their education.

But conservatives don't want to talk about real things, like poverty.
 
:lamo God you people crack me up!.....y'all come a runnin' to the defense of liberal progressive leaders, and the school system of Chicago, more liberal progressives, trying as hard as you can to make excuses, and bring in examples of other cities that don't have near the same problems that happen in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, L.A.....etc....And further, your only response, rather than discuss with introspection of ideology, is to attack anyone even bringing up the question..:lamo

What a joke it really is. :roll:

(Now the usual suspects can personally attack some more without any reprisal)
 
I think the real issue is far simpler and far more damning for conservative ideology: poor people have a hard time educating their children without resources and without the time to dedicate to their education.

But conservatives don't want to talk about real things, like poverty.

Sorry. That's not it. When our whole public education model has failed the poor for generations, they don't value education. They don't know any better. Those that value it? Manage to get their kids educated even in these poor communities. If "poor" was the answer -- meaning they have to work hard at earning a living and can't devote time to their kids -- every two-parent-working/single-parent household would be churning out kids who couldn't read. That's not the case.

When schools keep trouble-makers in the classroom for the "per-pupil funding" they receive...when they are administrative top-heavy...when they don't spend money on kids but spend it on lining their own pockets...kids are going to suffer. And suffer they do.
 
Well, there are some cultural differences in some cases regarding emphasis on education at some times. To claim that's the root of the problem makes little sense since it's not even a measured (or measurable) statistic.

I think it's probably fairer to say that families that are poor tend to have worse educational outcomes than families that are rich, and maybe we should be focusing on how to bring prosperity to those families -- rather than blaming them and rather than pursuing policies that overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy.

But we all know the OP has a rather ugly agenda which isn't about urging the black community to emphasize education more.

I think poverty and generational lack of education are aspects of larger black america at this point. Naturally you see the same thing in predominately white trailer parks and what not, but there exists a pretty large disparity in the number of blacks and whites that come from such backgrounds (the former is pretty much mainstream culture for that community). And while that disparity certainly has it's roots in the systematic racism of the american past, I now think it's being perpetuated by those cultural norms and ideals that found their origin there (like distrust of american institutions and systems of authority, apathy towards pursuit of a better future, resentment towards mainstream cultural values and ideals, a habit of dismissing very real and ingrown issues in their own communities).

So i am unsure that simply throwing money at the issue will solve it, though continuing policies like our current model for school funding certainly doesn't help
 
:lamo God you people crack me up!.....y'all come a runnin' to the defense of liberal progressive leaders, and the school system of Chicago, more liberal progressives, trying as hard as you can to make excuses, and bring in examples of other cities that don't have near the same problems that happen in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, L.A.....etc....And further, your only response, rather than discuss with introspection of ideology, is to attack anyone even bringing up the question..:lamo

What a joke it really is. :roll:

(Now the usual suspects can personally attack some more without any reprisal)

I know this is hard but asking you to show evidence of your premise in the OP is not defending anything. The fact you cannot is your failing, and pointing to others is not going to change it from being your failing.
 
I think poverty and generational lack of education are aspects of larger black america at this point. Naturally you see the same thing in predominately white trailer parks and what not, but there exists a pretty large disparity in the number of blacks and whites that come from such backgrounds (the former is pretty much mainstream culture for that community). And while that disparity certainly has it's roots in the systematic racism of the american past, I now think it's being perpetuated by those cultural norms and ideals that found their origin there (like distrust of american institutions and systems of authority, apathy towards pursuit of a better future, resentment towards mainstream cultural values and ideals, a habit of dismissing very real and ingrown issues in their own communities).

So i am unsure that simply throwing money at the issue will solve it, though continuing policies like our current model for school funding certainly doesn't help

I don't know about those "cultural norms". I think if studied they would be more a matter of confirmation bias ("look at the black lady with 5 kids on food stamps!") or more likely the "norms" that result from being poor in America and having to hustle around just to survive, much less educate your kids.

Every ethnic group/culture has bad traits along with good ones. We just tend to fixate on the bad ones if the group is poor and has no power, especially if we find them threatening.
 
Sorry. That's not it. When our whole public education model has failed the poor for generations, they don't value education. They don't know any better. Those that value it? Manage to get their kids educated even in these poor communities. If "poor" was the answer -- meaning they have to work hard at earning a living and can't devote time to their kids -- every two-parent-working/single-parent household would be churning out kids who couldn't read. That's not the case.

When schools keep trouble-makers in the classroom for the "per-pupil funding" they receive...when they are administrative top-heavy...when they don't spend money on kids but spend it on lining their own pockets...kids are going to suffer. And suffer they do.

Disruptive students are real issue, as any teacher will tell you. But you've missed the point entirely. The reason trouble makers can't be put in a special education class (which they need as do the classes they are disrupting), is money, pure and simple. It costs money to give 'trouble makers' (who often have cognitive difficulties or social problems relating to their homelife) the attention they need in separate classes, allowing regular classes not be disrupted. It all comes down to money.

Private schools just expel kids that disrupt classes. They don't give a damn. Public education doesn't have that option. The solution is not blaming anybody --it's spending more money on it and hiring special ed teachers for special ed classes for disruptive students.
 
:lamo God you people crack me up!.....y'all come a runnin' to the defense of liberal progressive leaders, and the school system of Chicago, more liberal progressives, trying as hard as you can to make excuses, and bring in examples of other cities that don't have near the same problems that happen in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, L.A.....etc....And further, your only response, rather than discuss with introspection of ideology, is to attack anyone even bringing up the question..:lamo

What a joke it really is. :roll:

(Now the usual suspects can personally attack some more without any reprisal)

Lots of emoticons equal an argument -- in teapartyknownothingworld.
 
Disruptive students are real issue, as any teacher will tell you. But you've missed the point entirely. The reason trouble makers can't be put in a special education class (which they need as do the classes they are disrupting), is money, pure and simple. It costs money to give 'trouble makers' (who often have cognitive difficulties or social problems relating to their homelife) the attention they need in separate classes, allowing regular classes not be disrupted. It all comes down to money.

Private schools just expel kids that disrupt classes. They don't give a damn. Public education doesn't have that option. The solution is not blaming anybody --it's spending more money on it and hiring special ed teachers for special ed classes for disruptive students.

Bull****, we spend more money per student than anyone. Typical progressive meme is always spend more money, results are irrelevant. Spend money, it make you feel better about yourself....it shows you care.
 
Bull****, we spend more money per student than anyone. Typical progressive meme is always spend more money, results are irrelevant. Spend money, it make you feel better about yourself....it shows you care.

Hey look kids, a tea party eructation.

Pssst: we spend money on NCLB, a model that doesn't work.

Now back to your regular scheduled rightwing meme.
 
How can anyone complain? I believe high school was intended to prepare students for their future careers.

:mrgreen::lamo
 
Hey look kids, a tea party eructation.

Pssst: we spend money on NCLB, a model that doesn't work.

Now back to your regular scheduled rightwing meme.

More extremist nonsense from you.

This chart by Mercatus Center Senior Research Fellow Veronique de Rugy compares K-12 education expenditures per pupil in each of the world’s major industrial powers. As we can see, with the exception of Switzerland, the United States spends more than any other country on education, an average of $91,700 per student between the ages of six and fifteen.

Source
 
Hey look kids, a tea party eructation.

Pssst: we spend money on NCLB, a model that doesn't work.

Now back to your regular scheduled rightwing meme.

the progressive solution to everything

spend other peoples' money

disruptive kids who prevent other kids from learning

cannon fodder or ditch diggers
 
Disruptive students are real issue, as any teacher will tell you. But you've missed the point entirely. The reason trouble makers can't be put in a special education class (which they need as do the classes they are disrupting), is money, pure and simple. It costs money to give 'trouble makers' (who often have cognitive difficulties or social problems relating to their homelife) the attention they need in separate classes, allowing regular classes not be disrupted. It all comes down to money.

Private schools just expel kids that disrupt classes. They don't give a damn. Public education doesn't have that option. The solution is not blaming anybody --it's spending more money on it and hiring special ed teachers for special ed classes for disruptive students.

Good for the private schools. At least their kids get an education -- and 40% or more of them don't end up functionally illiterate. If yours is the latest excuse for failure and quest for ever-more dollars, I'm unimpressed. Unless you're saying that poor neighborhoods have more need for special education than the population at large...which I personally don't buy for a New York Minute.
 
I know this is hard but asking you to show evidence of your premise in the OP is not defending anything. The fact you cannot is your failing, and pointing to others is not going to change it from being your failing.

In case you haven't noticed evidence, and discussion has proceeded without your nonsense....Night now. :2wave:
 
I don't know about those "cultural norms". I think if studied they would be more a matter of confirmation bias ("look at the black lady with 5 kids on food stamps!") or more likely the "norms" that result from being poor in America and having to hustle around just to survive, much less educate your kids.

Statistically, there are measurable differences between African Americans, whites, Asians and Latinos. There are even measurable differences within the black community, african immigrants, and a further breakdown of where those African immigrants hail from. For example, Nigerians and Kenyans form some of the best performing immigrants groups in both education and earnings

African americans on the ther hand have a high incident of single mothers, crime, stds, and various other issues.


Also, I really wish I could find the link, but an interview with a researcher on the news hour, some years ago, was discussing the achievement gap in general education between african americans and whites. The point of interest was various studies measuring the gap in relation to things like income, and pointed out that even when correcting for education and earnings, white students still significantly out performed their african american counter parts. And that we only see a leveling of this when we look at African american children adopted into white families.
 
Bull****, we spend more money per student than anyone. Typical progressive meme is always spend more money, results are irrelevant. Spend money, it make you feel better about yourself....it shows you care.

that spending can be rather disproportionate due to how it's based on property taxes. Take for example my High school: had leaky roofs, hardly any comps, a ****ty library, generally poor infrastructure, lack of funding for sports teams and special programs, etc.

In contrast, the school I lived next to a few years ago was lending out $2400 digital cameras to students in the photography clud
 
None to this extent. It is one thing to say that large urban areas have problems, quite another to try and deflect the constant barrage of reports of a city that has been absolutely ruined by progressive corruption, and stupid policy.
If your hypothesis is that liberal policies lead to reports of violence like this, then why is the North Side of Chicago one of the safest and richest cities in the United States? If you knew anything about Chicago, this should be easy to answer.

"During the 1990s, crime rates in New York City dropped dramatically, even more than in the United States as a whole. Violent crime declined by more than 56 percent in the City, compared to about 28 percent in the nation as whole. Property crimes tumbled by about 65 percent, but fell only 26 percent nationally.

Many attribute New York's crime reduction to specific "get-tough" policies carried out by former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's administration. The most prominent of his policy changes was the aggressive policing of lower-level crimes, a policy which has been dubbed the "broken windows" approach to law enforcement. In this view, small disorders lead to larger ones and perhaps even to crime. As Mr. Guiliani told the press in 1998, "Obviously murder and graffiti are two vastly different crimes. But they are part of the same continuum, and a climate that tolerates one is more likely to tolerate the other."

What Reduced Crime in New York City

What I like to call "coddle policy" like Midnight basketball, and moving kids through a broken education system where teachers are risking their very lives going to work because the thugs have taken over the schools, as opposed to taking real action like increasing the police presence, and effecting real arrests of identified gang bangers, and trouble instigators is what drives this very real sense that the lawless 'run the city'....


"Corman and Mocan identify several factors that could affect crime rates. For example, the police force in New York City grew by 35 percent in the 1990s, the numbers of prison inmates rose 24 percent, and there were demographic changes, including a decline in the number of youths."

What Reduced Crime in New York City
Given the links you posted, then you must really love the reforms Garry McCarthy has taken at tackling the areas where crime is the highest since it is the epitome of James Q. Wilson's 'Broken Windows Theory.' Results so far this year are good, though it is questionable if the gains will maintain for the remaining part of the year.

There has also been lengthy debates among sociologists about why Chicago did not see similar large drops in crimes like other major cities during the 1990s that stem from the demographics of city neighborhoods. I am sure you know all about those.

I do it find funny that you call Chicago a blight when you live in an economic backwater like South Carolina.
 
that spending can be rather disproportionate due to how it's based on property taxes. Take for example my High school: had leaky roofs, hardly any comps, a ****ty library, generally poor infrastructure, lack of funding for sports teams and special programs, etc.

In contrast, the school I lived next to a few years ago was lending out $2400 digital cameras to students in the photography clud

You need to follow the context of the discussion, I was responding to someone.
 
the progressive solution to everything

spend other peoples' money

disruptive kids who prevent other kids from learning

cannon fodder or ditch diggers

It pretty much works out that way, the stupid dig ditches.
 
You need to follow the context of the discussion, I was responding to someone.

Ok? But you clearly wrote "we spend more money per student than anyone". And while that may be true, it is also true that spending isn't equal across the board.

Not sure what you are taking issue with there, if you don't disagree.
 
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