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Thread: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

  1. #201
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    There's your first problem, you're an ideological purist. Ideologies are ideas, guides, tools to use to look at an issue through a certain perspective. If you only see things from one point of view you end up with a very limited understanding.


    I can't take you seriously when you talk like this. This hyperbole of Obama being the worst ever, incompetent, corrupt... that's going way too far. Yes they spun Benghazi because it was an election issue, shame on them. Was this spinning the worst thing ever though? Did it kill anyone? There's no evidence they did anything other than spin it, so just STFU with your expected "HE KILLED 4 PROUD AMERICANS" response.

    I'm going to keep this brief but Bill Clinton and Barney Frank are far from evil. Barney got caught up in the financial crisis and its unclear whether he's a SOB or was guilty by association. From what I've seen of him he tries to do the right thing whenever he can so I give him the benefit of the doubt. Bill just can't keep his pants on, other than that he's a standup guy and has done a tremendous amount of work trying to improve the U.S. and the world as a whole.

    When you call all these people the worst ever it just makes you look bad.

    EDIT: Wanted to add, I think Chris Dodd is a criminal, horrible, corrupt POS.
    No, I'm no purist and I'm more than capable of objective analysis on a case by case basis. The problem with most Democrats I meet in person or on the NET is their innate aversion to honest objective research when it comes to critiquing their own Politicians. It would seem that the Liberal uses his ideology to define the truth as Conservatives use the truth to define their ideology.

    First Benghazi, an obvious disaster and cover up, a blatant LIE told directly to your face by a President and numerous Democrat Politicians who saw a potentially damaging pre-election event and did everything in their power to cover it up. Personally I'm not too bothered by it, since I knew immediately it was a terrorist attack and after hearing enough of the details, and knowing enough about our military capabilities I also knew those people were left there to die.

    Sorry, I don't like being lied to, by people or Politicians of any political persuasion, but what is so abhorrent, so appalling and so repellent about Benghazi was our State Dept head Hillary Clinton, lied directly to the faces of the parents who lost their sons in Benghazi. One a Seal who gave up his position painting attackers for a military strike that would never come.

    I'm up on our military tech enough to know if they could dispatch a drone and have real time access to the attack, they could dispatch a hell fire missile to the painted mortar position that took the life of a Navy Seal trying to protect a American embassy.

    Bill Clinton ? He gets allot of credit for his Republican Congress, refusing welfare reform multiple times before finally giving in, and refusing the budget 5 times that supposed created a " surplus''. A "surplus" with a rising debt is no surplus. Conservatives pay attention to the details BTW.

    Sure Bill Clinton committed perjury, didn't have enough respect for his family, for his daughter to stay faithful to his mother and NOT be a total disgusting scum bag, but the thing he did that will continue to have economic repercussions for years to come, maybe decades, was his 1995 " National Homeowners Strategy" initiative.

    Just a bunch of Executive Orders, that kicked the Sub-Prime Scam into High Gear. Bill Clinton built the market for the secondary junk loans that nearly collapsed our economy by empowering the GSEs to buy up a increasing number of junk loans. HUD was given regulatory control over the GSE's to force them to maintain rising quotas year after year, and in 1997 Fannie Mae securitized their first sub-prime loan.

    But his Executive orders that enabled a bubble built on toxic loans wasn't enough apparently. He had to put his people in to power at the GSE's to make it work. So from 1993 to 1998 he replaced almost all of the executive positions at the GSE's, and even replaced the majority of their boards with political appointees. Franklin Raines, guilty of running Fannie like ENRON and guilty of misreporting BILLIONS in profit, was personally responsible for much of the Sub-Prime debacle, but he was a Bill Clinton cabinet member first.

    Facts are important.


    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This is just one big block of insults, name calling and right-wing propaganda. The point I think you're trying to make is that the economy is bad and its all because of liberalism. This is a really long, sad, and pointless argument that I've gone through a million times and I really hate to get into it again, but I'll point out a few fairly obvious things for you to think about.

    If you want to criticize Obama for his failure to right a catastrophe I'm right with you, he hasn't done enough. However if you look at where the economy was when he took office, it was a complete disaster. So going by your own logic that whoever is in office when the economy goes bad... 8 years of Bush ended in financial collapse. So by your own thinking I guess that means conservatism ALSO is destroying the country? I don't believe either, that Bush did it or that Obama is some kind of omnipotent power that can change everything. The crash was 30+ years in the making and all the presidents in that time played a part in it.

    Now if you want to talk about what Obama has done, or hasn't... he's been neutered by the GOP, he didn't put up enough of a fight, maybe he wanted to roll over and play dead, I don't know. Financial reform was reduced to a few joke bills that have been further restricted to even less and will do almost nothing, a shadow of what should have been done. The financial industry is still a rampaging beast that is sucking us dry with absolutely no risk to themselves. After a wimpy 700B stimulus that was mostly just a band-aid, welfare relief to placate the masses and smooth over the depression, we fell back into austerity instead of Keynesian action.

    Obama has governed like an old school center-right Republican which is kind of funny that you blame all this on liberalism which he hasn't done much of.

    You may want to scale back your infatuation with Obama, he's just one talking head, the real power lies with many outside of Washington. Take a look at those that are doing really, really well in this recession. They're the ones that write the financial rules and they also have all the money, hint hint, wink wink.

    I don't deal in propaganda. I deal in truth, which is why I'm a Conservative.

    IF you want to look at Obama, at the economy, at the economy when he took office, then you need to educate yourself, and that requires dropping all pretense and political affiliation. Don't give ANY POLITICIAN the benefit of the doubt. No Politician deserves that.

    The Crash that happened under Bush, the fault of a Democrat mandated sub-prime bubble, the fault of regulations that lowered lending standards AND lowered the standards of Fannie and Freddie, was NOT the fault of George W Bush. From 2001 to 2007, Bush's administration and the Republicans tried continuously to create a new regulatory board that would control the growing and corrupt Fannie and Freddie. With the corrupted GSE's buying up over 70% of CountryWides crap loans and Trillions in additional Alt-A, Sub-Prime and CRA loans a bank could make these loans that were bound to fail, and not have to be held responsible.

    Obama had 2 years of free reign, and passed a "stimulus" that only stimulated Government debt. 800 billion borrowed, with NO attention payed to WHY the economy was in such a desperate situation. 8 trillion wouldn't have helped, simply because it's impossible to print and borrow your way out of a recession.

    The Republicans haven't stopped anything but a faster self destruct of this Countries economy. Over 35 House jobs bills are languishing in the Senate now, with no chance for a vote thanks to Ried. Who's stopping whom ?

    Look at Japan, How many times have they tried this Post Keynesian malfeasance ? BTW, Keynesian is a failed archaic theory that would ONLY work in a isolated economy with a strong manufacturing base. Think about it, we print and borrow hundreds of Billions, or TRILLIONS according to you so we can go out and purchase crap from China. Unreal.

    Obama's Green jobs plan was the most ridiculous thing I'v ever seen, a 5th grade science project doomed to fail. He was going to spend billions to build a manufacturing base for a product that there was NO demand for, with NO attention payed to the OBVIOUS ability of the Chinese to easily undercut our manufacturing cost. Billions wasted, because so many Americans stupidly bought into the empty platitudes and who were too stupid or lazy to vet this President properly.

    Obama is NO center right anything and if you want to complain about the financial industry then you should be complaining about Obama's FED appointee who is responsible for perpetual QE which has brought down interest rates to almost record lows. It falsely inflates the value of assets and equities, and bonds, and it also removes the risk on private securities allowing for a very isolated effect of wealth creation......in the stock market.

    QE has little to no effect on the REAL economy, the private sector, because it does not address the issues that are currently holding down the engine of our economy. Obama's entire economy is propped up with the FEDs printing, with their 3rd attempt on QE which according to Bernake won't stop until employment numbers rise.....even though it's not the Feds job to effect unemployment levels.

    It is perhaps the most destructive, most irresponsible thing Obama and his administration have done to this Country, THE BIGGEST LIE, and the day Bernake says he's stopping QE ( I sincerely doubt he will, he's stuck ) , that's the day you guys will realize just how bad things really are.
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  2. #202
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No, I'm no purist and I'm more than capable of objective analysis on a case by case basis. The problem with most Democrats I meet in person or on the NET is their innate aversion to honest objective research when it comes to critiquing their own Politicians. It would seem that the Liberal uses his ideology to define the truth as Conservatives use the truth to define their ideology.
    This is one of the strangest things I've read on here. One of the defining traits of conservatives is their rigid adherence to belief systems. One of the defining traits of liberals are their openness and consideration of new information. The fact that you switch that around with your first assertion is bizarre. At this point I have to question your honesty and motivations.

    First Benghazi, an obvious disaster and cover up, a blatant LIE told directly to your face by a President and numerous Democrat Politicians who saw a potentially damaging pre-election event and did everything in their power to cover it up. Personally I'm not too bothered by it, since I knew immediately it was a terrorist attack and after hearing enough of the details, and knowing enough about our military capabilities I also knew those people were left there to die.

    Sorry, I don't like being lied to, by people or Politicians of any political persuasion, but what is so abhorrent, so appalling and so repellent about Benghazi was our State Dept head Hillary Clinton, lied directly to the faces of the parents who lost their sons in Benghazi. One a Seal who gave up his position painting attackers for a military strike that would never come.

    I'm up on our military tech enough to know if they could dispatch a drone and have real time access to the attack, they could dispatch a hell fire missile to the painted mortar position that took the life of a Navy Seal trying to protect a American embassy.
    This is massive exaggeration and painting a worst case scenario without evidence to back it up. The evidence points to election spin and nothing more. Maybe this is where you get the idea that liberals don't hold their politicians "accountable" enough. You seem to have a disconnect between going after people for what is proven, known, and choosing to believe the worst narrative that can possibly be imagined.

    Bill Clinton ? He gets allot of credit for his Republican Congress, refusing welfare reform multiple times before finally giving in, and refusing the budget 5 times that supposed created a " surplus''. A "surplus" with a rising debt is no surplus. Conservatives pay attention to the details BTW.

    Sure Bill Clinton committed perjury, didn't have enough respect for his family, for his daughter to stay faithful to his mother and NOT be a total disgusting scum bag, but the thing he did that will continue to have economic repercussions for years to come, maybe decades, was his 1995 " National Homeowners Strategy" initiative.
    Of course, when things go right its despite the Democratic president, when things go wrong its because of the Democratic president. Could you be any more partisan? This coming from the self described "objective liberal" Fenton.

    The fact that you zero in on Bill's family affairs shows that you have little else of substance to go after. Who cares? Does it hurt the country? Does it make your paycheck smaller? This is piddly crap in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a bunch of Executive Orders, that kicked the Sub-Prime Scam into High Gear. Bill Clinton built the market for the secondary junk loans that nearly collapsed our economy by empowering the GSEs to buy up a increasing number of junk loans. HUD was given regulatory control over the GSE's to force them to maintain rising quotas year after year, and in 1997 Fannie Mae securitized their first sub-prime loan.

    But his Executive orders that enabled a bubble built on toxic loans wasn't enough apparently. He had to put his people in to power at the GSE's to make it work. So from 1993 to 1998 he replaced almost all of the executive positions at the GSE's, and even replaced the majority of their boards with political appointees. Franklin Raines, guilty of running Fannie like ENRON and guilty of misreporting BILLIONS in profit, was personally responsible for much of the Sub-Prime debacle, but he was a Bill Clinton cabinet member first.

    Facts are important.
    What a surprise. It turns out The financial collapse was all because of Bill Clinton and government and the lower middle class? Wow. I couldn't have seen that coming, really. The most favorite talking points of the conservative just happens to be the cause of everything bad, what a coincidence. This was the pet scapegoat of the financial collapse and the ONLY talking point you guys could levy. If you actually look at the numbers, the math, Fannie and Freddie, those sub-prime loans only accounted for less than 10% of the mortgages that went belly up. It played a part in the collapse, absolutely, but it was a bit player.

    The big bucks were in the upper middle class / rich biting off more than they could chew. They were flipping wildly and taking huge risks because the bubble kept going up. Once the bubble started to pop they were completely naked financially and it created an avalanche. The sub-prime market was dominated by big banks writing crazy loans. The government didn't force them to do this, they did this all on their own. Fannie and Freddie were only a small part of this total market.

    I don't deal in propaganda. I deal in truth, which is why I'm a Conservative.
    Complete crap, conservatives RUN on propaganda. You just think its "reality".

    IF you want to look at Obama, at the economy, at the economy when he took office, then you need to educate yourself, and that requires dropping all pretense and political affiliation. Don't give ANY POLITICIAN the benefit of the doubt. No Politician deserves that.

    The Crash that happened under Bush, the fault of a Democrat mandated sub-prime bubble, the fault of regulations that lowered lending standards AND lowered the standards of Fannie and Freddie, was NOT the fault of George W Bush. From 2001 to 2007, Bush's administration and the Republicans tried continuously to create a new regulatory board that would control the growing and corrupt Fannie and Freddie. With the corrupted GSE's buying up over 70% of CountryWides crap loans and Trillions in additional Alt-A, Sub-Prime and CRA loans a bank could make these loans that were bound to fail, and not have to be held responsible.
    Trotting the same lie out again. This is the position of the big banks, the rich, the corporations. You're being duped.

    Obama had 2 years of free reign, and passed a "stimulus" that only stimulated Government debt. 800 billion borrowed, with NO attention payed to WHY the economy was in such a desperate situation. 8 trillion wouldn't have helped, simply because it's impossible to print and borrow your way out of a recession.

    The Republicans haven't stopped anything but a faster self destruct of this Countries economy. Over 35 House jobs bills are languishing in the Senate now, with no chance for a vote thanks to Ried. Who's stopping whom ?

    Look at Japan, How many times have they tried this Post Keynesian malfeasance ? BTW, Keynesian is a failed archaic theory that would ONLY work in a isolated economy with a strong manufacturing base. Think about it, we print and borrow hundreds of Billions, or TRILLIONS according to you so we can go out and purchase crap from China. Unreal.

    Obama's Green jobs plan was the most ridiculous thing I'v ever seen, a 5th grade science project doomed to fail. He was going to spend billions to build a manufacturing base for a product that there was NO demand for, with NO attention payed to the OBVIOUS ability of the Chinese to easily undercut our manufacturing cost. Billions wasted, because so many Americans stupidly bought into the empty platitudes and who were too stupid or lazy to vet this President properly.

    Obama is NO center right anything and if you want to complain about the financial industry then you should be complaining about Obama's FED appointee who is responsible for perpetual QE which has brought down interest rates to almost record lows. It falsely inflates the value of assets and equities, and bonds, and it also removes the risk on private securities allowing for a very isolated effect of wealth creation......in the stock market.

    QE has little to no effect on the REAL economy, the private sector, because it does not address the issues that are currently holding down the engine of our economy. Obama's entire economy is propped up with the FEDs printing, with their 3rd attempt on QE which according to Bernake won't stop until employment numbers rise.....even though it's not the Feds job to effect unemployment levels.

    It is perhaps the most destructive, most irresponsible thing Obama and his administration have done to this Country, THE BIGGEST LIE, and the day Bernake says he's stopping QE ( I sincerely doubt he will, he's stuck ) , that's the day you guys will realize just how bad things really are.
    QE is the only thing saving our economy, you're right. What has happened is the rich have "won". They have gathered all the money. The only way to ease this is to print money and devalue the dollar, lighten owed money on borrowers, devalue their holdings, etc. This is why the rich speak out against QE because they are the ones that lose. That is why your propaganda hammers these things into your head over and over. QE is bad, the fed is bad, this is more anti-government crap.

    Take a look at what all the top economists all say, nobel prize winning economists support some form of Keynesian economics. We have gotten away from Keynesian since the 70's in favor of conservative economic policy. This is the most hilarious part of your entire position. With Reagan it started, we did all the conservative stuff you guys wanted to do, we've done it hard core! We did it even more with Bush, and partly with Clinton, even he helped it along. Look at what has resulted... its been a disaster.

    Yet here you are arguing against Keynesian economics, pro conservative policy that has blown up miserably in our face for over 30 years now and you still don't get it.

    Its not your fault though. With the vast transfer of wealth into the hands of the few they have extra money to spend billions every year populating your conservative reading materials with brainwashing and bull**** to keep you mad and resist the people fighting for your economic freedom.

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