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Thread: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

  1. #131
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I think the real issue is far simpler and far more damning for conservative ideology: poor people have a hard time educating their children without resources and without the time to dedicate to their education.

    But conservatives don't want to talk about real things, like poverty.
    Sorry. That's not it. When our whole public education model has failed the poor for generations, they don't value education. They don't know any better. Those that value it? Manage to get their kids educated even in these poor communities. If "poor" was the answer -- meaning they have to work hard at earning a living and can't devote time to their kids -- every two-parent-working/single-parent household would be churning out kids who couldn't read. That's not the case.

    When schools keep trouble-makers in the classroom for the "per-pupil funding" they receive...when they are administrative top-heavy...when they don't spend money on kids but spend it on lining their own pockets...kids are going to suffer. And suffer they do.
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  2. #132
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Well, there are some cultural differences in some cases regarding emphasis on education at some times. To claim that's the root of the problem makes little sense since it's not even a measured (or measurable) statistic.

    I think it's probably fairer to say that families that are poor tend to have worse educational outcomes than families that are rich, and maybe we should be focusing on how to bring prosperity to those families -- rather than blaming them and rather than pursuing policies that overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy.

    But we all know the OP has a rather ugly agenda which isn't about urging the black community to emphasize education more.
    I think poverty and generational lack of education are aspects of larger black america at this point. Naturally you see the same thing in predominately white trailer parks and what not, but there exists a pretty large disparity in the number of blacks and whites that come from such backgrounds (the former is pretty much mainstream culture for that community). And while that disparity certainly has it's roots in the systematic racism of the american past, I now think it's being perpetuated by those cultural norms and ideals that found their origin there (like distrust of american institutions and systems of authority, apathy towards pursuit of a better future, resentment towards mainstream cultural values and ideals, a habit of dismissing very real and ingrown issues in their own communities).

    So i am unsure that simply throwing money at the issue will solve it, though continuing policies like our current model for school funding certainly doesn't help

  3. #133
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    God you people crack me up!.....y'all come a runnin' to the defense of liberal progressive leaders, and the school system of Chicago, more liberal progressives, trying as hard as you can to make excuses, and bring in examples of other cities that don't have near the same problems that happen in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, L.A.....etc....And further, your only response, rather than discuss with introspection of ideology, is to attack anyone even bringing up the question..

    What a joke it really is.

    (Now the usual suspects can personally attack some more without any reprisal)
    I know this is hard but asking you to show evidence of your premise in the OP is not defending anything. The fact you cannot is your failing, and pointing to others is not going to change it from being your failing.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I think poverty and generational lack of education are aspects of larger black america at this point. Naturally you see the same thing in predominately white trailer parks and what not, but there exists a pretty large disparity in the number of blacks and whites that come from such backgrounds (the former is pretty much mainstream culture for that community). And while that disparity certainly has it's roots in the systematic racism of the american past, I now think it's being perpetuated by those cultural norms and ideals that found their origin there (like distrust of american institutions and systems of authority, apathy towards pursuit of a better future, resentment towards mainstream cultural values and ideals, a habit of dismissing very real and ingrown issues in their own communities).

    So i am unsure that simply throwing money at the issue will solve it, though continuing policies like our current model for school funding certainly doesn't help
    I don't know about those "cultural norms". I think if studied they would be more a matter of confirmation bias ("look at the black lady with 5 kids on food stamps!") or more likely the "norms" that result from being poor in America and having to hustle around just to survive, much less educate your kids.

    Every ethnic group/culture has bad traits along with good ones. We just tend to fixate on the bad ones if the group is poor and has no power, especially if we find them threatening.

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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Sorry. That's not it. When our whole public education model has failed the poor for generations, they don't value education. They don't know any better. Those that value it? Manage to get their kids educated even in these poor communities. If "poor" was the answer -- meaning they have to work hard at earning a living and can't devote time to their kids -- every two-parent-working/single-parent household would be churning out kids who couldn't read. That's not the case.

    When schools keep trouble-makers in the classroom for the "per-pupil funding" they receive...when they are administrative top-heavy...when they don't spend money on kids but spend it on lining their own pockets...kids are going to suffer. And suffer they do.
    Disruptive students are real issue, as any teacher will tell you. But you've missed the point entirely. The reason trouble makers can't be put in a special education class (which they need as do the classes they are disrupting), is money, pure and simple. It costs money to give 'trouble makers' (who often have cognitive difficulties or social problems relating to their homelife) the attention they need in separate classes, allowing regular classes not be disrupted. It all comes down to money.

    Private schools just expel kids that disrupt classes. They don't give a damn. Public education doesn't have that option. The solution is not blaming anybody --it's spending more money on it and hiring special ed teachers for special ed classes for disruptive students.

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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    God you people crack me up!.....y'all come a runnin' to the defense of liberal progressive leaders, and the school system of Chicago, more liberal progressives, trying as hard as you can to make excuses, and bring in examples of other cities that don't have near the same problems that happen in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, L.A.....etc....And further, your only response, rather than discuss with introspection of ideology, is to attack anyone even bringing up the question..

    What a joke it really is.

    (Now the usual suspects can personally attack some more without any reprisal)
    Lots of emoticons equal an argument -- in teapartyknownothingworld.

  7. #137
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Disruptive students are real issue, as any teacher will tell you. But you've missed the point entirely. The reason trouble makers can't be put in a special education class (which they need as do the classes they are disrupting), is money, pure and simple. It costs money to give 'trouble makers' (who often have cognitive difficulties or social problems relating to their homelife) the attention they need in separate classes, allowing regular classes not be disrupted. It all comes down to money.

    Private schools just expel kids that disrupt classes. They don't give a damn. Public education doesn't have that option. The solution is not blaming anybody --it's spending more money on it and hiring special ed teachers for special ed classes for disruptive students.
    Bull****, we spend more money per student than anyone. Typical progressive meme is always spend more money, results are irrelevant. Spend money, it make you feel better about yourself....it shows you care.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Bull****, we spend more money per student than anyone. Typical progressive meme is always spend more money, results are irrelevant. Spend money, it make you feel better about yourself....it shows you care.
    Hey look kids, a tea party eructation.

    Pssst: we spend money on NCLB, a model that doesn't work.

    Now back to your regular scheduled rightwing meme.

  9. #139
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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    How can anyone complain? I believe high school was intended to prepare students for their future careers.



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    Re: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl at Proviso East High School

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Hey look kids, a tea party eructation.

    Pssst: we spend money on NCLB, a model that doesn't work.

    Now back to your regular scheduled rightwing meme.
    More extremist nonsense from you.

    This chart by Mercatus Center Senior Research Fellow Veronique de Rugy compares K-12 education expenditures per pupil in each of the world’s major industrial powers. As we can see, with the exception of Switzerland, the United States spends more than any other country on education, an average of $91,700 per student between the ages of six and fifteen.
    Source

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