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Thread: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

  1. #71
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Got to love how the right blames Obama and yet it all started under the last guy... and has been going on with the full knowledge and approval of their own representatives in Congress. Whats next... blaming Obama for drought, floods, the flu... the dog **** outside your door?
    Then why didn't the current guy stop it?

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    mike allen? jim vandehei? ben smith?

    Journolist veers out of bounds - Roger Simon - POLITICO.com

    you don't know what you're talking about

    it's cuz you don't read enough

    why did clapper lie to wyden
    ?
    Depends on what the meaning of "wittingly" is.
    Apparently when Clapper said "wittingly" he meant "voyeuristically" as he has since helpfully clarified.

    "What I said was, the NSA does not voyeuristically pore through U.S. citizens' e-mails. I stand by that," Clapper told National Journal in a telephone interview.

    There ... now isn't that better?

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    Obama administration defends 2nd mass surveillance project | Fox News



    if you linked more it would force you to know what you're talking about
    I do know what I'm talking about, and your biased source does nothing to prove my statement false. Seriously, learn a little bit about how technology works.

    absolutely

    and what on the campaign trail in 08 was a "violation of the basic civil liberties of the american people" and an "abuse of power" is friday morning in sunny san jose a "modest encroachment on privacy"
    So..what you're saying is that this isn't a Democrat vs. Republican issue, like I claimed from the very beginning? Thanks for realizing I'm right.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    so many empty opinions, so few solid links...
    Says the person quoting Fox News and The Hill.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Then why didn't the current guy stop it?
    why should he? Its legal and according to both the right and left under Bush and now under Obama... it is effective.

    Listen I dont like it one bit, since it is non-American's that get hit the hardest by US policies... but we have grown to expect this behavior from the resident bully regardless who is in power. You elected your politicians who put these laws in place so deal with it.

    Only way to get rid of this... get rid of the Patriot act and similar laws.. what are the chances of this?
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    why should he? Its legal and according to both the right and left under Bush and now under Obama... it is effective.

    Listen I dont like it one bit, since it is non-American's that get hit the hardest by US policies... but we have grown to expect this behavior from the resident bully regardless who is in power. You elected your politicians who put these laws in place so deal with it.

    Only way to get rid of this... get rid of the Patriot act and similar laws.. what are the chances of this?
    I agree 100% with this.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    biased source
    LOL!

    NSA Prism program taps in to user data of Apple, Google and others | World news | The Guardian

    Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

    Several senior tech executives insisted that they had no knowledge of Prism or of any similar scheme. They said they would never have been involved in such a program. "If they are doing this, they are doing it without our knowledge," one said.

    An Apple spokesman said it had "never heard" of Prism.

    Companies are legally obliged to comply with requests for users' communications under US law, but the Prism program allows the intelligence services direct access to the companies' servers.

    When the FAA was first enacted, defenders of the statute argued that a significant check on abuse would be the NSA's inability to obtain electronic communications without the consent of the telecom and internet companies that control the data. But the Prism program renders that consent unnecessary, as it allows the agency to directly and unilaterally seize the communications off the companies' servers.

    The Prism program allows the NSA, the world's largest surveillance organisation, to obtain targeted communications without having to request them from the service providers and without having to obtain individual court orders.

    With this program, the NSA is able to reach directly into the servers of the participating companies and obtain both stored communications as well as perform real-time collection on targeted users.

    When the law was enacted, defenders of the FAA argued that a significant check on abuse would be the NSA's inability to obtain electronic communications without the consent of the telecom and internet companies that control the data. But the Prism program renders that consent unnecessary, as it allows the agency to directly and unilaterally seize the communications off the companies' servers.
    what an idiot

    obama, i mean

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    why should he?
    because---according to him---it's a "violation of the basic civil liberties of the american people" and an "abuse of power"

    Barack Obama Statement on Surveillance | Firedoglake

    of course, that's before he matured

    Obama: Spying Debate A "Sign of Maturity" That Wouldn't Have Happened 6 Years Ago | RealClearPolitics

    LOL!

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Exactly. Everyone let fear dominate their rationality and excused gross expansion of government. This is the natural conclusion of that gross expansion. Duh!
    I'm sure I've been on a list since I bought a Guy Fawkes mask on Amazon, my posts here certainly don't help and any hope of not being on a list flew out the window when I started buying firearms.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    why should he? Its legal and according to both the right and left under Bush and now under Obama... it is effective.

    Listen I dont like it one bit, since it is non-American's that get hit the hardest by US policies... but we have grown to expect this behavior from the resident bully regardless who is in power. You elected your politicians who put these laws in place so deal with it.

    Only way to get rid of this... get rid of the Patriot act and similar laws.. what are the chances of this?
    I'd say low single digit percentage chance of our government every giving up that kind of power and going back to asking judges for warrants, too many sheep have gotten used to the expectation of zero privacy; they laugh at outrage.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  9. #79
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    wapo is certainly biased...

    but...

    LOL!

    U.S., British intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program - The Washington Post

    The National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails, documents, and connection logs that enable analysts to track foreign targets, according to a top-secret document obtained by The Washington Post.

    The program, code-named PRISM, has not been made public until now. It may be the first of its kind. The NSA prides itself on stealing secrets and breaking codes, and it is accustomed to corporate partnerships that help it divert data traffic or sidestep barriers. But there has never been a Google or Facebook before, and it is unlikely that there are richer troves of valuable intelligence than the ones in Silicon Valley.

    Equally unusual is the way the NSA extracts what it wants, according to the document: “Collection directly from the servers of these U.S. Service Providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple.”

    London’s Guardian newspaper reported Friday that GCHQ, Britain’s equivalent of the NSA, also has been secretly gathering intelligence from the same internet companies through an operation set up by the NSA.

    According to documents obtained by The Guardian, PRISM would appear to allow GCHQ to circumvent the formal legal process required in Britain to seek personal material such as emails, photos and videos from an internet company based outside of the country.

    Late last year, when critics in Congress sought changes in the FISA Amendments Act, the only lawmakers who knew about PRISM were bound by oaths of office to hold their tongues.

    Several companies contacted by The Post said they had no knowledge of the program, did not allow direct government access to their servers and asserted that they responded only to targeted requests for information.

    We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers,” said Joe Sullivan, chief security officer for Facebook. “When Facebook is asked for data or information about specific individuals, we carefully scrutinize any such request for compliance with all applicable laws, and provide information only to the extent required by law.”

    We have never heard of PRISM,” said Steve Dowling, a spokesman for Apple. “We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers, and any government agency requesting customer data must get a court order.”

    In another classified report obtained by The Post, the arrangement is described as allowing “collection managers [to send] content tasking instructions directly to equipment installed at company-controlled locations,” rather than directly to company servers.

    Government officials and the document itself made clear that the NSA regarded the identities of its private partners as PRISM’s most sensitive secret, fearing that the companies would withdraw from the program if exposed. “98 percent of PRISM production is based on Yahoo, Google and Microsoft; we need to make sure we don’t harm these sources,” the briefing’s author wrote in his speaker’s notes.
    the most transparent president of all time is also hands on, busy busy:

    An internal presentation of 41 briefing slides on PRISM, dated April 2013 and intended for senior analysts in the NSA’s Signals Intelligence Directorate, described the new tool as the most prolific contributor to the President’s Daily Brief, which cited PRISM data in 1,477 items last year. According to the slides and other supporting materials obtained by The Post, “NSA reporting increasingly relies on PRISM” as its leading source of raw material, accounting for nearly 1 in 7 intelligence reports.

    That is a remarkable figure in an agency that measures annual intake in the trillions of communications. It is all the more striking because the NSA, whose lawful mission is foreign intelligence, is reaching deep inside the machinery of American companies that host hundreds of millions of American-held accounts on American soil.

    Sens. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), who had classified knowledge of the program as members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, were unable to speak of it when they warned in a Dec. 27, 2012, floor debate that the FISA Amendments Act had what both of them called a “back-door search loophole” for the content of innocent Americans who were swept up in a search for someone else.

    “As it is written, there is nothing to prohibit the intelligence community from searching through a pile of communications, which may have been incidentally or accidentally collected without a warrant, to deliberately search for the phone calls or e-mails of specific Americans,” Udall said.
    irony:

    Wyden repeatedly asked the NSA to estimate the number of Americans whose communications had been incidentally collected, and the agency’s director, Lt. Gen. Keith B. Alexander, insisted there was no way to find out. Eventually Inspector General I. Charles McCullough III wrote Wyden a letter stating that it would violate the privacy of Americans in NSA data banks to try to estimate their number.
    exponential growth?

    well, that's news:

    But the PRISM program appears to more nearly resemble the most controversial of the warrantless surveillance orders issued by President George W. Bush after the al-Qaeda attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Its history, in which President Obama presided over exponential growth in a program that candidate Obama criticized, shows how fundamentally surveillance law and practice have shifted away from individual suspicion in favor of systematic, mass collection techniques.
    nothing to worry about:

    Analysts who use the system from a Web portal at Fort Meade, Md., key in “selectors,” or search terms, that are designed to produce at least 51 percent confidence in a target’s “foreignness.” That is not a very stringent test. Training materials obtained by The Post instruct new analysts to make quarterly reports of any accidental collection of U.S. content,but add that “it’s nothing to worry about.”

    Even when the system works just as advertised, with no American singled out for targeting, the NSA routinely collects a great deal of American content. That is described as “incidental,” and it is inherent in contact chaining, one of the basic tools of the trade. To collect on a suspected spy or foreign terrorist means, at minimum, that everyone in the suspect’s inbox or outbox is swept in. Intelligence analysts are typically taught to chain through contacts two “hops” out from their target, which increases “incidental collection” exponentially.

    In exchange for immunity from lawsuits, companies such as Yahoo and AOL are obliged to accept a “directive” from the attorney general and the director of national intelligence to open their servers to the FBI’s Data Intercept Technology Unit, which handles liaison to U.S. companies from the NSA.

    Google, like the other companies, denied that it permitted direct government access to its servers.

    “Google cares deeply about the security of our users’ data,” a company spokesman said. “We disclose user data to government in accordance with the law, and we review all such requests carefully. From time to time, people allege that we have created a government ‘back door’ into our systems, but Google does not have a ‘back door’ for the government to access private user data.”

    Microsoft also provided a statement: “We provide customer data only when we receive a legally binding order or subpoena to do so, and never on a voluntary basis. In addition we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers. If the government has a broader voluntary national security program to gather customer data we don’t participate in it.”

    Yahoo also issued a denial.

    “Yahoo! takes users’ privacy very seriously,” the company said in a statement. “We do not provide the government with direct access to our servers, systems, or network.”

    Like market researchers, but with far more privileged access, collection managers in the NSA’s Special Source Operations group, which oversees the PRISM program, are drawn to the wealth of information about their subjects in online accounts. For much the same reason, civil libertarians and some ordinary users may be troubled by the menu available to analysts who hold the required clearances to “task” the PRISM system.

    There has been “continued exponential growth in tasking to Facebook and Skype,” according to the PRISM slides. With a few clicks and an affirmation that the subject is believed to be engaged in terrorism, espionage or nuclear proliferation, an analyst obtains full access to Facebook’s “extensive search and surveillance capabilities against the variety of online social networking services.”

    According to a separate “User’s Guide for PRISM Skype Collection,” that service can be monitored for audio when one end of the call is a conventional telephone and for any combination of “audio, video, chat, and file transfers” when Skype users connect by computer alone. Google’s offerings include Gmail, voice and video chat, Google Drive files, photo libraries, and live surveillance of search terms.

    Firsthand experience with these systems, and horror at their capabilities, is what drove a career intelligence officer to provide PowerPoint slides about PRISM and supporting materials to The Washington Post in order to expose what he believes to be a gross intrusion on privacy. “They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type,” the officer said.
    woe to the wingnuts at wapo

    the most transparent president in the history of all mankind says he's checked by congressional oversight

    except merkley and durbin (most prominently) say members have never heard of prism

    Lawmakers rebut Obama's data defense - Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com

    top secret, y'know

    the transparency poobah looks to limits from the judiciary

    except his administration proudly asserts privilege

    US government invokes special privilege to stop scrutiny of data mining | World news | guardian.co.uk

    making, according to the aclu, "a mockery of judicial oversight"

    surprised?
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-08-13 at 02:29 PM.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    I'm sure I've been on a list since I bought a Guy Fawkes mask on Amazon, my posts here certainly don't help and any hope of not being on a list flew out the window when I started buying firearms.



    I'd say low single digit percentage chance of our government every giving up that kind of power and going back to asking judges for warrants, too many sheep have gotten used to the expectation of zero privacy; they laugh at outrage.
    Good afternoon, Lachean.

    I wonder how the sheeple explain their lack of expectation of privacy? In which areas might they make exceptions?

    Early man had separate areas for women in childbirth, as an example. Basic bathroom functions were also at least gender private. Orwell's 1984 may be interesting to those who feel the need to control others, but most people do expect privacy in their lives, especially in their home. I agree that people shouldn't expect much privacy when out in public.

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