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Thread: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

  1. #41
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    anyone who wants to have a reasonable discussion about almost any issue is instantly branded a socialist / fascist / etc.

    it's because of our stupid "go team" partisanship. when this ramped up in 2002, Republicans on the board i posted on told me i wanted to help the terrorists because i was leery of this kind of stuff. now it has come full circle, and each side pretty much takes the convenient position. i'd rather toss all of that, take a close look at what we're doing, and ask the question do we want to do this, and what should the limits be? that would be a much more fruitful discussion than "oh look, politician X who i hate is in charge, so i hate the NSA. when politician Y who i like is in charge, i love the NSA." does not compute, and it gets us nowhere.
    when this got created back then my very first thought was that this will be used politically. phone sex with your wife will eventually and not so miraculously be leaked to the echo-chambers when you decide to run for office. or you will be threatened with it if you stay in the race.

    These are tools that have Nixon's and J Edgar Hoover's corpses growing boners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    anyone who wants to have a reasonable discussion about almost any issue is instantly branded a socialist / fascist / etc.

    it's because of our stupid "go team" partisanship. when this ramped up in 2002, Republicans on the board i posted on told me i wanted to help the terrorists because i was leery of this kind of stuff. now it has come full circle, and each side pretty much takes the convenient position. i'd rather toss all of that, take a close look at what we're doing, and ask the question do we want to do this, and what should the limits be? that would be a much more fruitful discussion than "oh look, politician X who i hate is in charge, so i hate the NSA. when politician Y who i like is in charge, i love the NSA." does not compute, and it gets us nowhere.
    Sadly, you have my complete agreement.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    maybe this is news to some people because they believed this guy:

    No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people – not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.

    That is why I am co-sponsoring Senator Dodd’s amendment to remove the immunity provision. Secrecy must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens – and set an example to the world – that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient.

    A grassroots movement of Americans has pushed this issue to the forefront. You have come together across this country. You have called upon our leaders to adhere to the Constitution. You have sent a message to the halls of power that the American people will not permit the abuse of power – and demanded that we reclaim our core values by restoring the rule of law.

    It’s time for Washington to hear your voices, and to act. I share your commitment to this cause, and will stand with you in the fights to come. And when I am President, the American people will once again be able to trust that their government will stand for justice, and will defend the liberties that we hold so dear as vigorously as we defend our security.
    Barack Obama Statement on Surveillance | Firedoglake

    why did clapper lie?

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Spoken straight from the "DNC" talking points,

    4 dead people - no story happens all the time,
    Yes it does.. happened over 30 times under the last guy and there was nothing in Congress or in the media about it..

    targeting the media to make sure they tote the line no big deal so long as you like living in a banana republic nothing to see here,
    It was a leak investigation.. funny how when Manning leaked the right demanded assassination of the guy who published the so called secrets, and here a leak investigation that actually leaked information that threatened the US and its operatives... and all is fine... leaks are not a problem, but the fact that the administration is going after the leaker is badddd.

    using the official power of govt to harrass political opposition - would be the norm in Iran - now America under this fascist regime,
    Again.. the last guy did it, and the people complaining about it now were ... nothing to see here.. bla bla.. HYPOCRITES!

    spying on the entire country - just like China right!
    That you actually think that this did not go on... come on... reality check for **** sake.

    By the way I have to hand it to Bob Beckle the spokesman of the left on the "FIVE" show on FOX noting the "fascism" of the left you so well illustated here in your "centrist" post.
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Can you name those 29 other dead ambassadors for us? Yeah I have my doubts - fail

    Oh and how is that leak investigation coming on the "attack" of Iran we engaged in electronically that came out - you know - a week ahead of Republican Convention?

    So how much does the DNC pay you not to care about the hateful regime in charge? Or are you just a willing co conspirator?


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes it does.. happened over 30 times under the last guy and there was nothing in Congress or in the media about it..



    It was a leak investigation.. funny how when Manning leaked the right demanded assassination of the guy who published the so called secrets, and here a leak investigation that actually leaked information that threatened the US and its operatives... and all is fine... leaks are not a problem, but the fact that the administration is going after the leaker is badddd.



    Again.. the last guy did it, and the people complaining about it now were ... nothing to see here.. bla bla.. HYPOCRITES!



    That you actually think that this did not go on... come on... reality check for **** sake.

    By the way I have to hand it to Bob Beckle the spokesman of the left on the "FIVE" show on FOX noting the "fascism" of the left you so well illustated here in your "centrist" post.

  6. #46
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    the fact that the administration is going after the leaker is bad
    obama is troubled

    “I am troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable," he said in a speech on national security policy on Thursday.
    the lady is accusing

    The New York Times editorial board accused Obama of going "beyond protecting government secrets to threatening fundamental freedoms of the press to gather news."
    the ignorant (by his own account) ag is creeping

    "[F]or Attorney General Eric Holder, the gravity of the situation didn’t fully sink in until Monday morning when he read the [Washington] Post’s front-page story, sitting at his kitchen table," Daniel Klaidman reports for The Daily Beast. "...Holder knew that Justice would be besieged by the twin leak probes; but, according to aides, he was also beginning to feel a creeping sense of personal remorse."
    the wingnuts at cnn, cbs, reuters, nbc, mcclatchy, ap, nyt and huffpo are boycotting

    CNN, Fox News, CBS News, Reuters, NBC News and McClatchy on Thursday joined The Associated Press, The New York Times and The Huffington Post in refusing to go to one of the Department of Justice’s off the record sessions about the department’s handling of investigations into journalists.
    Obama 'troubled' by leak investigations - POLITICO.com

    Eric Holder's 'remorse' - POLITICO.com

    Growing boycott of Eric Holder media meetings - Mackenzie Weinger - POLITICO.com

    ostriches are obstinately oblivious

  7. #47
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    what on the campaign trail in 08 was a "violation of the basic civil liberties of the american people" and an "abuse of power" is this morning in sunny san jose a "modest encroachment on privacy"

    Obama On NSA Program: "Modest Encroachments On Privacy Are Involved" | RealClearPolitics

    he's matured

    Now, having said all that, you'll remember when I made that speech a couple of weeks ago about the need for us to shift out of a perpetual war mind-set, I specifically said that one of the things that we're going to have to discuss and debate is how are we striking this balance between the need to keep the American people safe and our concerns about privacy because there are some tradeoffs involved.

    I welcome this debate and I think it's healthy for our democracy. I think it's a sign of maturity because probably five years ago, six years ago we might not have been having this debate. And I think it's interesting that there are some folks on the left but also some folks on the right who are now worried about it, who weren't very worried about it when it was a Republican president.

    I think that's good that we're having this discussion but I think it's important for everybody to understand, and I think the American people understand that there are some tradeoffs involved. You know?
    Obama: Surveillance Debate A "Sign of Maturity" That Wouldn't Have Happend 5-6 Years Ago | RealClearPolitics

    insufferably self serving?

    it's becoming endemic

    President Obama debates himself - Glenn Thrush - POLITICO.com

    thank goodness the world is so safe, such self serving soul searching otherwise could become downright dangerous

  8. #48
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    another day, another hundred words...

    another lie

    Dem. Senator disputes Obama's claim that Congress was briefed - The Hill

    Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) on Friday disputed a claim President Obama made at a press conference only moments earlier, when the president said that every member of Congress had been briefed on the National Security Agency’s (NSA) domestic phone surveillance program.

    Merkley said only select members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees had been briefed on the program, and that he was only aware of it because he obtained “special permission” to review the pertinent documents after hearing about it second-hand.

    “I knew about the program because I specifically sought it out,” Merkley said on MSNBC. “It’s not something that’s briefed outside the Intelligence Committee. I had to get special permission to find out about the program. It raised concerns for me. … When I saw what was being done, I felt it was so out of sync with the plain language of the law and that it merited full public examination, and that’s why I called for the declassification.”

    At a press conference on Friday, Obama said that every member of Congress had been briefed on the phone monitoring program.

    But Merkley on Friday blasted the administration’s handling of the program, saying it had ignored requests from Congress to explain the NSA’s domestic surveillance actions, and that it was implementing the program in a way that did not follow the “standard of the law.”

    Merkley argued that “plain language of the law” said that the NSA should only be allowed to collect phone data that related to an open investigation, but that the agency was using a “broad vacuum” to sweep up data from ordinary Americans.

    “The administration hasn’t listened at all,” Merkley said. “We’ve asked for the rulings of the FISA court – the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court – about how it interprets the laws Congress passes to be declassified so we can have a conversation with the American people about that.”

    “For example, the question is — how is scooping up your cellphone data, which tracks where you are, my cellphone data, related to an investigation?” he asked. “That’s the plain language of the law — related to an investigation. Well, certainly anyone would hear that and think that’s a certain hurdle that has to be met. That there’s a crime or a potential crime or a potential national security threat that justifies scooping up your information and my information. Clearly the administration has not followed what an ordinary person would consider to be the standard of the law here, and has not been willing to release the opinion of the FISA court in how they’re interpreting that language, despite repeated requests from Congress to do so.”

    “By the way,” Merkley continued. “When I sought information [on the phone surveillance program], the only information I got was that, yes there is a program sweeping up broad amounts of data through the records act. This second thing, which we just learned about, called PRISM, I had no idea about.”

    “I don’t know how many people knew about it in Congress, but I suspect a very small number on the Intelligence Committee, so when the president says all members of Congress were briefed … well, I think a very small number of Senators in Congress had full details on these programs,” Merkley said.
    darn that bush, he made him do it, y'know

  9. #49
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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    The administration needs a good dose of the flu:

    "All exits open, everybody out!"

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    A) The fact people seem to find this surprising amuses me.

    B) If these companies are allowing access, your complaint is not with the government, but rather the systems which are allowing access.

    A.) It'd be shocking if most people *didn't* find this shocking

    B.) Of course the complaint should be with the government. It is the unholy marriage between the state and corporations that bore this mess. If the government really wanted those records, do you honestly believe corporations could have prevented it? Imagine all the underhanded, behind-the-scenes double-speak blackmail that goes on. The corporations are not faultless, but to say they are the primary entities at fault when it is the government that requested and utilized the data is mind boggling. This is an overextension of government power and a clear illustration of why we should not cede even more power to the world's most powerful conglomerate that not even mega-Cap corporations can even begin to stand up to: the US Government.

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