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Thread: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Like I said in your other thread...

    Nice to see that a conservative finally gives a **** about this kind of stuff.
    I can't speak for anybody but myself, Rob, and I will freely admit that I wasn't aware of this issue until now. Thanks for bringing it up because I may not be the only one who didn't know.

    But this doesn't mean that my concern is hypocritical or partisan either. I really didn't know. Now I do. And I don't really care which party is in power; what I care about is the issue itself and the abrogation of my rights as a citizen.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I can't speak for anybody but myself, Rob, and I will freely admit that I wasn't aware of this issue until now. Thanks for bringing it up because I may not be the only one who didn't know.

    But this doesn't mean that my concern is hypocritical or partisan either. I really didn't know. Now I do. And I don't really care which party is in power; what I care about is the issue itself and the abrogation of my rights as a citizen.
    I doubt conservative new sources covered it much when Bush implemented it. So when I see conservatives just now getting angry, it's beginning to chaffe my arse. Not pointing to you just the hyperbolic threads being started about it who then try to tell us all that pointing to Bush about anything is irrelevant because the point is to bash Obama. The issue is serious. So partisans acting partisan on this topic can piss off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    It is odd that this is coming out now... all of a sudden.. since it has been pretty much common knowledge in Europe that the US government was doing this, since they requested all this information for anyone wanting to go to the US from European countries for 10 or so years now. The fact that the US wanted even more but got a no from the EU... stuff like sexual orientation and religion... but in the end only get access to our financial records...brilliant! When can I get access to the financial records of Americans who visit Europe?.. oh I cant..

    On top of that there has been cases where financial transactions between two European countries have been blocked by the US federal government as "terrorist activity"... things like buying Cuban cigars.. all because for some strange reason sending money from one European country to another European country... some how happened to pass through a US server. Yes the US is actually a thief.

    Or cases where domain names have been siezed by the US despite the domains running legal stuff targeting non Americans and all the content being hosted outside the US...

    Sorry but nothing of this should be shocking anyone since it has been going on ever since 9/11 and in some non Internet related stuff... long before that.
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    My opinion has been and remains that FISA is sufficiently robust and flexible to deal with the contemporary terrorist threat in a timely fashion, while safeguarding the basic constitutional rights of Americans.
    I can't belive that all Americans are terrorists.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Yes it was implemented during Bush era, shame on him. It was continued for the last 5 years too - so who you going to blame then? My guess is the Republican congress? Any time ofailure deserves an ounce of blame you partisan hacks are all alike - blame Bush give the failure in charge a full pass. Pathetic.


    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I doubt conservative new sources covered it much when Bush implemented it. So when I see conservatives just now getting angry, it's beginning to chaffe my arse. Not pointing to you just the hyperbolic threads being started about it who then try to tell us all that pointing to Bush about anything is irrelevant because the point is to bash Obama. The issue is serious. So partisans acting partisan on this topic can piss off.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Benghazi story needed a diversion - so the AP investigation story came out, not good,
    The AP story needed a diversion - so Rosen story came out, not good,
    The Rosen story needed a diversion - so the IRS story came out - ugh, not good,
    So the IRS story needed a diversion - lets just tell the world we're investigating everyone - no more stories right?


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is odd that this is coming out now... all of a sudden.. since it has been pretty much common knowledge in Europe that the US government was doing this, since they requested all this information for anyone wanting to go to the US from European countries for 10 or so years now. The fact that the US wanted even more but got a no from the EU... stuff like sexual orientation and religion... but in the end only get access to our financial records...brilliant! When can I get access to the financial records of Americans who visit Europe?.. oh I cant..

    On top of that there has been cases where financial transactions between two European countries have been blocked by the US federal government as "terrorist activity"... things like buying Cuban cigars.. all because for some strange reason sending money from one European country to another European country... some how happened to pass through a US server. Yes the US is actually a thief.

    Or cases where domain names have been siezed by the US despite the domains running legal stuff targeting non Americans and all the content being hosted outside the US...

    Sorry but nothing of this should be shocking anyone since it has been going on ever since 9/11 and in some non Internet related stuff... long before that.

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Benghazi story needed a diversion - so the AP investigation story came out, not good,
    There was no story about Benghazi... that was the problem. Only the faithful right wing rags were running with this so called story....

    The AP story needed a diversion - so Rosen story came out, not good,
    Fueled by a pissed off media... but in reality a non-story. Since when are journalists a "no touch" profession? How about these journalists actually do their freaking jobs for once instead cry over one of their own who might have assisted the enemy?

    The Rosen story needed a diversion - so the IRS story came out - ugh, not good,
    Fueled again by the media, and still not a story... Again the journalists should be doing their jobs, which this Rosen guy certainly does not since he is at Fox News... but again another non story.

    So the IRS story needed a diversion - lets just tell the world we're investigating everyone - no more stories right?
    A slight story, but twisted by the GOP as usual.... considering that the IRS did not break any laws and were doing their jobs. Oh and there was some of these groups who were actually trying to defraud the US government and the tax payer... why nothing about that from the right wing?
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Regardless of when this was implemented, the public were lied to about what was implemented. In President Obama's excuse speeches today we find it works like this:
    1) they collect ALL the data and save it (not just foreign, but both US and foreign users).
    2) when they need to search for a specific individual/group they search the saved dataset.

    Then he says "trust us". Apparently we're supposed to trust some nameless congress critters, a POTUS who has lied to us over and over and a court system that issued these blanket warrants in the first place. He assures us this data they're saving will never, ever be used against an American and that it will always and only be used for preventing terror attacks.

    So, the government has all your data, but they promise to never look at it - are you comfortable with that?

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    usatoday, for the color crayon crowd:

    Revelations that the U.S. government has been collecting a massive database of telephone usage by millions of Americans — citizens not suspected of any wrongdoing — created a firestorm Thursday that would be damaging for any administration. But it is is especially problematic for Obama because it stokes controversies he already was struggling to contain and reinforces criticism that has dogged him from the start.

    Republicans have long depicted Obama as an advocate of a big, dangerous and overreaching government, back to the federal bailout of the auto industry he undertook during the financial crisis that greeted his first inauguration. That has been their fundamental philosophical objection to his signature Affordable Care Act, now just months away from implementation of its major provisions.

    In recent weeks, it has fueled outrage over the targeting by the Internal Revenue Service of conservative Tea Party groups seeking non-profit status, and over the use of secret subpoenas and search warrants against the Associated Press and Fox News in Justice Department investigations of news leaks.

    Now the headlines are focused on governmental monitoring that touches not just reporters but, apparently, just about anyone who makes a phone call. Thursday began with explosions over a story in The Guardian in London of a broad secret U.S. warrant for phone records from Verizon. By midday, Senate Intelligence Chairman Dianne Feinstein had confirmed the surveillance had been going on for years. By the end of the day, The Washington Post and The Guardian reported that a data-mining program targeting foreigners was tapping into such Internet companies as Microsoft, Google, Yahoo and Facebook.

    As a U.S. senator from Illinois in 2007, Barack Obama blasted President George W. Bush for sweeping surveillance of Americans in the name of battling terrorism — just the sort of justification that Obama officials were making Thursday.

    Then, Obama called it "a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand."

    "I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom," he said in a speech then. "No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists."

    But his critics also spanned the political spectrum. "Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous?" former vice president Al Gore posted on Twitter. Rep. James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, an author of the Patriot Act that was used to obtain the court order, called it "excessive and un-American."

    Obama's plan has been to be able to win approval for and sign a comprehensive immigration bill in Congress by fall. He hopes to be able to negotiate a big budget deal that would curb the deficit and put Medicare on a firmer long-term footing before the 2014 midterm elections and the 2016 presidential race seize the political world.

    Instead, explaining and defending these surveillance programs — what they are, how they work and why he thinks they're needed — are about to take up a lot of his time.
    USAToday: Obama's agenda scorched in firestorm

    explaining and defending...

    blame bush, blame congress, blame the courts...

    threaten to pull a michelle---you guys keep this up, i'm outta here

    "sometime in the next three and a half years"

    in san jose this morning (you should at least know where he is if you're gonna chime in as much as you do, i'd be embarrassed by such ignorance):

    I will leave this office at some point -- sometime in the next three and a half years -- and after that I'll be a private citizen," he said.
    Obama: Spying programs only modest invasion of privacy - Yahoo

    big brother's bothered

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    Re: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies

    Great...so now the government knows about my proclivity to search for granny porn...
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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