Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

Boo Radley said:

I don't disagree completely. And people like you and I are part of the unfavorable, something else not admitted by those who often throw out the unpopularness of tis reform. Many wanted more and better.

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Hey, even I think that single payer, as bad as that would be, is preferable to the mess O gave us.

Deuce said:

And what magical intervention prevents an increase in medical supplies and personnel? An I barred from producing bandages or starting a medical school?

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Of course you are not barred. But you are...and you will increasingly be...regulated, taxed and price controlled to the point it won't be worth your time, money and effort. THAT is what we are seeing the beginning of right now...and Obamacare isn't even fully implemented and it hasn't been "tweaked".

The worse is yet to come.

jmotivator said:

This will be worse. But in a sad way I want to see the slow realization in the program's supporters of how blind they have been and how willfully they gave away everything regarding their own choices with their bodies to mindless bureaucrats. It's like the moment when you realize your friend just can't be talked out of a stupid stunt so you just sit back and watch the painful lesson unfold.

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This may very well be the outcome of this law, but at the same time I have to hope that it works out. As much as you think you have choice over your own healthcare, you do not have nearly as much. When you are prescribed a medication it is often decided based on which drug was most successfully marketed to your physician or his/her clinic, not the best or most effective, and also on which your insurance company will choose to cover.

One of my favorite examples of our current health care system is about the kid who needed Tamiflu, but the pharmacy had none on hand and so they had to compound it themselves. When the insurance company denied the request for coverage for a popular medicine that everyone supposedly covers, the pharmacist called and discovered that the NDC of the purified water in the recipe was the problem and they would do nothing about it. And so the insurance company expected the family to pay full price because they didn't cover the water.

Our healthcare has been corrupted by for-profit principles, and I don't see how any of us, regardless of how much choice we might think we have, will have the best possible care until healthcare becomes non-profit. Unfortunately the only solution besides government intervention is that all healthcare related industries suddenly stop caring about their stock values and prioritize patient care above all else.

wbcoleman said:

You know, I sort of hope the Democrats mirror your attitude and fail to respond as support for the scheme continues to diminish.

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If they follow my lead, they'll work to improve it. And may both sides stop with he hyperbolic misinformation.

wbcoleman said:

Hey, even I think that single payer, as bad as that would be, is preferable to the mess O gave us.

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The mess is the ack of a system we have even before reform.

Boo Radley said:

If they follow my lead, they'll work to improve it. And may both sides stop with he hyperbolic misinformation.

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Work to improve it? How?

wbcoleman said:

Work to improve it? How?

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Stop appeasing the insurance company. A return to the public option would be better. A single payer system better yet. Those would be my suggestions.

But, as noted earlier by others, some good results in lowering cost have taken place. In many areas, lower cost efforts are making real in roads. This is good. Insurance companies are still able to misrepresent their costs.there s no logical reason for premiums to rise. It's all too convoluted as well, and should be simplified a bit.this came about as a way to appease groups need for support, and to pay for it more indirectly. I prefer a more straightforward approach.

Boo Radley said:

Stop appeasing the insurance company. A return to the public option would be better. A single payer system better yet. Those would be my suggestions.

But, as noted earlier by others, some good results in lowering cost have taken place. In many areas, lower cost efforts are making real in roads. This is good. Insurance companies are still able to misrepresent their costs.there s no logical reason for premiums to rise. It's all too convoluted as well, and should be simplified a bit.this came about as a way to appease groups need for support, and to pay for it more indirectly. I prefer a more straightforward approach.

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Excuse me, the Democrats lost control of the House. You know about that inconvenience, right?

wbcoleman said:

Excuse me, the Democrats lost control of the House. You know about that inconvenience, right?

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Yep. I do. But I call on republicans to help as well. Smart is good for both parties.

Also, my comment concerns what they all should do.

Boo Radley said:

Yep. I do. But I call on republicans to help as well. Smart is good for both parties.

Also, my comment concerns what they all should do.

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Step one has to be repeal. Then we can talk.

wbcoleman said:

Step one has to be repeal. Then we can talk.

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No. That means going backward to nothing. This issue has ended there far too often. Either come to the table, or lie with his IMHO.

Boo Radley said:

No. That means going backward to nothing. This issue has ended there far too often. Either come to the table, or lie with his IMHO.

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Look, the scheme was thrown together carelessly with the intention of tweaking it later. The Democrats really did think it would become more popular. They miscalculated, they are stuck with their handiwork, and it is going to crash.

wbcoleman said:

Look, the scheme was thrown together carelessly with the intention of tweaking it later. The Democrats really did think it would become more popular. They miscalculated, they are stuck with their handiwork, and it is going to crash.

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It might. But what if it doesn't? You us have banked on a lot that hashing wrong for you. I prefer honest people working o solve problems over partisan cowards only seek to disrupt.

wbcoleman said:

The public did not want this at the time it was rammed down our throats. The Obama Administration [aka The Bully Pulpit] and the Democrats in Congress have had well over three years to sell this pig, but still no sale. You are refusing to acknowledge the obvious, this was a perversion of democratic government.

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Yes. And the people were so upset they threw Obama and the Democrats out of the Senate last year.

What an odd alternate reality you live in!

Boo Radley said:

It might. But what if it doesn't? You us have banked on a lot that hashing wrong for you. I prefer honest people working o solve problems over partisan cowards only seek to disrupt.

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The economics of the scheme are not difficult to analyze. Frankly, I almost think the thing was deliberately written to fail.

Threegoofs said:

Yes. And the people were so upset they threw Obama and the Democrats out of the Senate last year.

What an odd alternate reality you live in!

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I'm not defending the GOP nominating process, either for the presidential or senatorial contests. The Dems sure didn't make much progress in the House, though, did they?

MaggieD said:

That approval rating is going to go up as soon as people understand how it's going to effect them. Our government has done a piss-poor job of bringin' it on home.

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When the states implement the healthcare exchanges people will start loving Obamacare. The rates are nosediving where it is being put in place because before, a company could practically monopolize a state. I think it was Alabama that had just one or two insurance companies to choose from. With the exchange in place you have loads of companies to choose from and they have to post their prices side by side with the other companies which is what is driving down the costs and the fact that some of the mandates of Obamacare say that "requires an insurer to spend at least 80 percent of your premium directly on your medical care" and if they don't, they owe you a rebate.

Once these lower price's start showing up more prevelantly people will change their minds.

Health care reform brings insurance rebates

The downside is the politics of all this is that the red states are doing all they can to refuse to implement the exchanges and that will hurt their constituents in their pockets really hard.

wbcoleman said:

I'm not defending the GOP nominating process, either for the presidential or senatorial contests. The Dems sure didn't make much progress in the House, though, did they?

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Thanks to gerrymandering because the Dems got 1.4 million more vote than the GOP did for house seats. So dems made much progress with the people but that doesn't matter though with the districts carved up like they are. So much for representation.

wbcoleman said:

The economics of the scheme are not difficult to analyze. Frankly, I almost think the thing was deliberately written to fail.

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Then it will. Or you'll be wrong.

TwEnTY-SiX said:

This may very well be the outcome of this law, but at the same time I have to hope that it works out. As much as you think you have choice over your own healthcare, you do not have nearly as much. When you are prescribed a medication it is often decided based on which drug was most successfully marketed to your physician or his/her clinic, not the best or most effective, and also on which your insurance company will choose to cover.

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And when you are prescribed a medication in a socialized medicine state you get the cheapest drug that was... successfully marketed to your government officials. You can't get away from that. But if for some reason you have reason to doubt your doctor, here in the US you can get a new doctor immediately. In the UK good luck with all that. If you want a new doctor, more drug choice you could... fly to America.

One of my favorite examples of our current health care system is about the kid who needed Tamiflu, but the pharmacy had none on hand and so they had to compound it themselves. When the insurance company denied the request for coverage for a popular medicine that everyone supposedly covers, the pharmacist called and discovered that the NDC of the purified water in the recipe was the problem and they would do nothing about it. And so the insurance company expected the family to pay full price because they didn't cover the water.

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Well, for every anecdote like that there is a counter anecdote of people being denied coverage in states with Socialized medicine countries for cost reasons.

Our healthcare has been corrupted by for-profit principles, and I don't see how any of us, regardless of how much choice we might think we have, will have the best possible care until healthcare becomes non-profit. Unfortunately the only solution besides government intervention is that all healthcare related industries suddenly stop caring about their stock values and prioritize patient care above all else.

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This is the often repeated refrain, but it is simply not true by virtue of saying it. Doctors and nurses and hospital staff and pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies regardless of the country expect to get paid. In reality, only 18% of all hospitals in the US are for-profit entities, and the high charges hospitals have is driven in part by ow little medicare actually pays. Medicare way underpays for many services, and the only saving grace is that the losses a doctor/hospital takes on that treatment can be deducted from their taxes. But when you socialize the system you simple replace cost pressure with availability pressure.

The "For Profit" mindset in the socialized medicine world is simply transferred to the government who collects high taxes to feed the government beast. The trouble there is that the government isn't well suited to take all that money and then reinvest it in medical studies to find the next breakthrough drug... the government will invest in new drug studies but they do it in a far more corruptible model than for-profit.

Anyone who argues that the free market is more corrupt than the government isn't paying attention.

MaggieD said:

That approval rating is going to go up as soon as people understand how it's going to effect them. Our government has done a piss-poor job of bringin' it on home.

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New Rates come out this fall. I'm thinking you may have mis-predicted that direction of movement.

poweRob said:

Thanks to gerrymandering because the Dems got 1.4 million more vote than the GOP did for house seats. So dems made much progress with the people but that doesn't matter though with the districts carved up like they are. So much for representation.

Democrats received 1.4 million more votes for the House of Representatives, yet Republicans won control of the House by a 234 to 201 margin.

link...​

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Gerrymandering my ass. You've got urban centers that vote 99% Dem, because liberalism has turned those urban areas into cesspools of parasites.

cpwill said:

New Rates come out this fall. I'm thinking you may have mis-predicted that direction of movement.

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Yes.

Ohio Dept. of Insurance: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Health Premiums By 88 Percent

Democrats continue to try to dismiss the evidence that Obamacare will dramatically increase the cost of insurance for people who buy it on their own. But on Thursday, the Ohio Department of Insurance announced that, based on the rates submitted by insurers to date, the average individual-market health insurance premium in 2014 will come in around $420, “representing an increase of 88 percent” relative to 2013. “We have warned of these increases,” said Lt. Gov. Mary Taylor in a statement. “Consumers will have fewer choices and pay much higher premiums for their health insurance starting in 2014.”

Ohio Dept. of Insurance: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Health Premiums By 88 Percent - Forbes

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Before its over, only those 40 million or so who won't be paying a penny for their newfound Obama free-stuff will be supporting this.

Boo Radley said:

Maybe you should ask a person and respond to that person, instead if generic stereotypical liberals.

Look, we pay more than anyone in the world right now, and with less than stellar access. We could adopt any number of different single payer systems and pay less. Paying less is saving money and not spending more. That is a clear answer.

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So you say, but your liberal friends (not one republican vote) came up with Obamacare, and that is not saving anyone a dime, in fact it is a disaster and is going to cost a trillion over ten yrs not save us a dime.

So I say again, liberals think there is an endless supply of money, and only want to enact more entitlements, nannies and freebies for their own selfish wants. Be damned if their great grand kids have to pay for it. But they won't pay for it, they will be so engrained in entitlements themselves.

Record numbers on food stamps of over 47 million people. And this is after 4.5 yrs of Obama's policies.

MaggieD said:

That approval rating is going to go up as soon as people understand how it's going to effect them. Our government has done a piss-poor job of bringin' it on home.

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No one is buying that pitch. It's hard to sell a broken car.