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Thread: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Well the media did not call Obama a "soviet, communist, socialist, facist, Kenyan, Muslim terrorists, without a birth certificate wanting to destroy American."

    The issue I was addressing was that Romney wasn't chosen as the candidate of the people who opposed Obama. He was what was left after the Obama cheering media engaged smear campaign against any Republican that was in favor of limited government. That and the leaders in the Republican Party that have no philisophial center and just want to "win" elections who put their weight behind moribund established names. What would be needed is a reform in the electorial process alltogether so that we can avoid more Romnies in the Future.
    Nonsense. Can you Gus ever take personal responsibility without blaming the media or something else? No party is as divided as democrats, and yet they won. No, the fact is republicans Obama so much they CHOSE the candidate most like him. Shows how opposed republicans really aren't to his policies.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nonsense. Can you Gus ever take personal responsibility without blaming the media or something else? No party is as divided as democrats, and yet they won. No, the fact is republicans Obama so much they CHOSE the candidate most like him. Shows how opposed republicans really aren't to his policies.

    Keep in mind I am NOT a Republican and never been a Republican nor contributed to a Republican candidate's election. From my point of view the Democrat party of today is mostly homogenous. Today there are not very many Blue Dog Democrats (fiscally conservative). The Democrats are solidly line party voters on most issues. It is the Republican party today that is the heterogeneous party and there is too often with the older Repubs a tendency to "compromise" with the Dems where the Dems themselves do not know the meaning of the word.


    There is need of reform of the way the Presidential Electoral is handled. First it needs not to be the domain of only two Parties and no Party who has a candidate for President can have his Electoral Votes be denied in any State. Second the Primary must be decided by a Caucus not a Primary election (which is used a reason to deny more than two parties). Third and Presidential Debate must include all Parties that have enough Electoral Votes to participate. Fourth, and you should like this one: Given that the broadcast spectrum is a license to the broadcaster and this is something that occurs only once every four years. All broadcasters would be required to contribute significant airtime for say four or five three-hour (minimum) broadcasts for the debates.

    Anyway back to the issue about "taking responsibility". Obviously since I am not a Republican I can take no responsibility. Since I am not a Republican the Republican candidate is no reflection whatsoever on my point of view so it cannot be reflective on the views of Obama.
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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Keep in mind I am NOT a Republican and never been a Republican nor contributed to a Republican candidate's election. From my point of view the Democrat party of today is mostly homogenous. Today there are not very many Blue Dog Democrats (fiscally conservative). The Democrats are solidly line party voters on most issues. It is the Republican party today that is the heterogeneous party and there is too often with the older Repubs a tendency to "compromise" with the Dems where the Dems themselves do not know the meaning of the word.


    There is need of reform of the way the Presidential Electoral is handled. First it needs not to be the domain of only two Parties and no Party who has a candidate for President can have his Electoral Votes be denied in any State. Second the Primary must be decided by a Caucus not a Primary election (which is used a reason to deny more than two parties). Third and Presidential Debate must include all Parties that have enough Electoral Votes to participate. Fourth, and you should like this one: Given that the broadcast spectrum is a license to the broadcaster and this is something that occurs only once every four years. All broadcasters would be required to contribute significant airtime for say four or five three-hour (minimum) broadcasts for the debates.

    Anyway back to the issue about "taking responsibility". Obviously since I am not a Republican I can take no responsibility. Since I am not a Republican the Republican candidate is no reflection whatsoever on my point of view so it cannot be reflective on the views of Obama.
    Factually you're wrong about the Democratic Party, they've never been homogeneous. Never. If they had been, we'd have seen the public option, the closing of Gitmo, the Bush tax cuts end on day one. Republicans on the other held the line to block Obama on all fronts.

    And no, the president merely needs to be put back in his place. Both parties have for too long abdicated their responsibility, granting more and more power to the president. We need to stop whining about results we don't like and pay proper attention to congress and start rolling back the power if the president.

    We also need to stop falling for all the sky is falling about the other guys, who ever they are, and realize the parties are just not hat different. Running a country is messy and hardly something that is criticism free. We need to keep proper perspective and focus on those who actually represent us, the house.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Factually you're wrong about the Democratic Party, they've never been homogeneous. Never. If they had been, we'd have seen the public option, the closing of Gitmo, the Bush tax cuts end on day one. Republicans on the other held the line to block Obama on all fronts.
    Obama is the President and not a House member so his political campaign points do not matter.

    The Dems are ideologically homogenous but when it comes to policies they would differ on what exact public option should be chosen. Also keep in mind the Reps in the House must have the support of their constituencies to keep them in office so there is that. I say that most all democrats supported Obama care when it came to a final vote. And beyond anything else I consider the vote to be the deciding matter on political solidarity.

    Being homogenous doesn't mean that they believe exactly the same thing and to the same degree on all issues but they have a particular ideology that must be adhered to when deciding and discussing issues.

    On Gitmo I view this is just as a thing that Democrats campaign on they do not believe in closing down Gitmo really. Again Obama is not the Congress and in particular the House so his view doesn't enter into it as much. And Obama had decided that it wasn't time to close Gitmo down on his last term.

    And with respect to the Bush tax cuts they had a sunset and the Democrats would have any extension of a tax cut as a bargaining chip to the Republicans.

    And no, the president merely needs to be put back in his place. Both parties have for too long abdicated their responsibility, granting more and more power to the president. We need to stop whining about results we don't like and pay proper attention to congress and start rolling back the power if the president
    .

    I have to agree with this. And to the Republicans opositon to Obama, they barely held their center and again I view the President to be outside of political dialogue given that the President tries to expand his power over government and the party opposed to his will always try to counter that if for no other reason as to keep their own power in government. The President is not just any pol of his party.


    We also need to stop falling for all the sky is falling about the other guys, who ever they are, and realize the parties are just not hat different. Running a country is messy and hardly something that is criticism free. We need to keep proper perspective and focus on those who actually represent us, the house.
    They aren't at least in their attepts to expand the intrusion of government in every day life. The Republican party is a mess. They have most of the fiscal conservatives since they do not have anywhere else to go. The have the Religious Right which a long awhile ago was the Prohibition Democrats and other ilk. They have the neo-cons which are for a strong military abroad. They have those members who are more or less Constitutionalists but not strident ones. And I am probably missing some major categories. While in your view the Dems are NOT unified from what I see in the Republicans I think the Dems are more of degree than and ideological view.

    I would like to know the ideological variants in the Dems that you can see.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Obama is the President and not a House member so his political campaign points do not matter.

    The Dems are ideologically homogenous but when it comes to policies they would differ on what exact public option should be chosen. Also keep in mind the Reps in the House must have the support of their constituencies to keep them in office so there is that. I say that most all democrats supported Obama care when it came to a final vote. And beyond anything else I consider the vote to be the deciding matter on political solidarity.

    Being homogenous doesn't mean that they believe exactly the same thing and to the same degree on all issues but they have a particular ideology that must be adhered to when deciding and discussing issues.

    On Gitmo I view this is just as a thing that Democrats campaign on they do not believe in closing down Gitmo really. Again Obama is not the Congress and in particular the House so his view doesn't enter into it as much. And Obama had decided that it wasn't time to close Gitmo down on his last term.

    And with respect to the Bush tax cuts they had a sunset and the Democrats would have any extension of a tax cut as a bargaining chip to the Republicans.

    .

    I have to agree with this. And to the Republicans opositon to Obama, they barely held their center and again I view the President to be outside of political dialogue given that the President tries to expand his power over government and the party opposed to his will always try to counter that if for no other reason as to keep their own power in government. The President is not just any pol of his party.




    They aren't at least in their attepts to expand the intrusion of government in every day life. The Republican party is a mess. They have most of the fiscal conservatives since they do not have anywhere else to go. The have the Religious Right which a long awhile ago was the Prohibition Democrats and other ilk. They have the neo-cons which are for a strong military abroad. They have those members who are more or less Constitutionalists but not strident ones. And I am probably missing some major categories. While in your view the Dems are NOT unified from what I see in the Republicans I think the Dems are more of degree than and ideological view.

    I would like to know the ideological variants in the Dems that you can see.
    You're just factually wrong on the first part. So dear wrong I'm not sure what would reach you. Do crafts fight over everything and these fights have left them often doing nothing. If they were as you claim, real changes would have happened. They aren't.

    You're also very wrong about the last part. Both parties intrude. The only might difference might be in which areas, but ven here he differences are minor. Any real student of politics knows how much they've come to look alike. Many conservatives would have a heart attack if there was a real liberal party here. Both both adjust to suit others and do little more than work to ain't he other side as something hey are not. All voters should resent this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Washington (CNN) - A majority of Americans still oppose the nation's new health care measure, three years after it became law, according to a new survey.

    But a CNN/ORC International poll released Monday also indicates that more than a quarter of those who oppose the law, known by many as Obamacare, say they don't support the measure because it doesn't go far enough.

    According to the poll, 43% of the public says it supports the health care law, a figure that's mostly unchanged in CNN polling since the measure was passed in 2010 by a Congress then controlled by Democrats and signed into law by President Barack Obama. Fifty-four percent of those questioned say they oppose the law, also relatively unchanged since 2010.

    The survey indicates that 35% oppose the health care law because it's too liberal, with 16% saying they oppose the measure because it isn't liberal enough.

    The wide partisan divide over the law remains. Nearly three quarters of Democrats say they favor the Affordable Care Act. That number drops to 16% among Republicans.
    Poll: Do you support or oppose the health care law? – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

    That leaves only 19% who oppose Obamacare because they think it is too liberal.
    The law is centrist in nature and an honest look at the polling break down indicates exactly that.
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 06-16-13 at 06:38 PM.

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're just factually wrong on the first part. So dear wrong I'm not sure what would reach you. Do crafts fight over everything and these fights have left them often doing nothing. If they were as you claim, real changes would have happened. They aren't.
    Then we have to agree to disagree.
    You're also very wrong about the last part. Both parties intrude.
    I believe I agreed with you on that point.

    The only might difference might be in which areas, but ven here he differences are minor. Any real student of politics knows how much they've come to look alike.
    And I agree on that point.

    Many conservatives would have a heart attack if there was a real liberal party here.
    Obama comes fairly close and it wont happen as long as State governments have at least some power retained to them. Also both side would have a heart attack if a real libertarian or constitutional party were brought to the fore.
    Both both adjust to suit others and do little more than work to ain't he other side as something hey are not. All voters should resent this.
    The People sholuld resent the imposition of an ideological view thru the force of law. Having the Dems and Repubs go at one another is at most a distant second best.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, republicans took a few young people and tried to explain away their failures by making it seem as something it really wasn't. Most merely picked the better choice.
    The entire mainstream media fell madly in love with this guy. Wake up!
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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Factually you're wrong about the Democratic Party, they've never been homogeneous. Never. If they had been, we'd have seen the public option, the closing of Gitmo, the Bush tax cuts end on day one. Republicans on the other held the line to block Obama on all fronts.
    This was true for a very long while, certainly during the New Deal coalition days, but it's a lot less so now. The Democratic caucus in the current House is pretty damned homogeneous.
    Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

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    Re: Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Washington (CNN) - A majority of Americans still oppose the nation's new health care measure, three years after it became law, according to a new survey.

    But a CNN/ORC International poll released Monday also indicates that more than a quarter of those who oppose the law, known by many as Obamacare, say they don't support the measure because it doesn't go far enough.

    According to the poll, 43% of the public says it supports the health care law, a figure that's mostly unchanged in CNN polling since the measure was passed in 2010 by a Congress then controlled by Democrats and signed into law by President Barack Obama. Fifty-four percent of those questioned say they oppose the law, also relatively unchanged since 2010.

    The survey indicates that 35% oppose the health care law because it's too liberal, with 16% saying they oppose the measure because it isn't liberal enough.

    The wide partisan divide over the law remains. Nearly three quarters of Democrats say they favor the Affordable Care Act. That number drops to 16% among Republicans.
    Poll: Do you support or oppose the health care law? – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

    That leaves only 19% who oppose Obamacare because they think it is too liberal.
    The law is centrist in nature and an honest look at the polling break down indicates exactly that.
    How can you cite the poll saying that 35% oppose the scheme because it's too liberal in 96-point font, and then turn around and announce that only 19% oppose it for that reason?
    Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

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