• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The Prof said:
why can't nsa name a single case successfully worked by prism and/or boundless?
Click to expand...


Because they all involve killing tax exempt applications with the IRS.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Boo Radley said:
Yeah, I remember many bring this up when Bush went wild with spying. How did Bush supporters answer back then? :ssst::ssst:
Click to expand...

How should I know - I was NEVER a GWB supporter.


And your point has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Obama's actions.
 
jonny5 said:
We didn't forget. We never knew. These are SECRET warrants. The NSA denied, under oath, that they were doing this.
Click to expand...
But there were warrants issued legally do you agree...secret or otherwise? Therefore, you can't say that the NSA broke the law just because the public wasn't aware that the surveillence program was in affect. This is different from the WARRANTLESS wiretaps of Nixon or the WARRANTLESS cellphone surveillences of GWB.
 
The Prof said:
a "violation of the basic civil liberties of the american people"

an "abuse of power"

Barack Obama Statement on FISA | Firedoglake

outrageous
Click to expand...
He wasn't referring to using a legal survellience program to catch terrorist. He was referring to immunity being granted under FISA law.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read the linked article in the OP.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
How should I know - I was NEVER a GWB supporter.


And your point has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Obama's actions.
Click to expand...

But it does. This isn't new. Not at all.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
How should I know - I was NEVER a GWB supporter.


And your point has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Obama's actions.
Click to expand...

Yes, actually, it does.

It's a little thing called precedent.

The road to abuse of the 4th amendment was opened and made a four lane highway during the Bush years. It became one of the central partisan divides during that time. Anyone so much as hinting at a warning that these laws, as history has shown since the beginning of time, will be used eventually to infringe the rights of citizens, was branded a nut, crank, and believe it or not, anti-american... If we didn't hold the congress and administration accountable then, we would lose any hope of challenging any future administration allowing further abuses.

HISTORY MATTERS!
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Occam's Razor said:
Yes, actually, it does.

It's a little thing called precedent.

The road to abuse of the 4th amendment was opened and made a four lane highway during the Bush years. It became one of the central partisan divides during that time. Anyone so much as hinting at a warning that these laws, as history has shown since the beginning of time, will be used eventually to infringe the rights of citizens, was branded a nut, crank, and believe it or not, anti-american... If we didn't hold the congress and administration accountable then, we would lose any hope of challenging any future administration allowing further abuses.

HISTORY MATTERS!
Click to expand...

Do G.W. Bush's actions excuse in any way what Obama does of his own free will?

Yes or no, please?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Boo Radley said:
But it does. This isn't new. Not at all.
Click to expand...

Do G.W. Bush's actions excuse in any way what Obama does of his own free will?

Yes or no, please?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
Do G.W. Bush's actions excuse in any way what Obama does of his own free will?

Yes or no, please?
Click to expand...

No.

I should tell you though yes or no questions are most often used to try and deceive. I stated earlier I welcome you converts. But lets not pretend that for many the only real isn't that we have a democrat in office now.

And it's still not new. I still don't support it. But it's not we all didn't know it was there and what could happen with it. Only mindlessly suddenly aware Obama haters now notice for the first time.

But I'll still are you, and pray a republican doesn't get elected and you forget all of the sudden.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Boo Radley said:
No.

I should tell you though yes or no questions are most often used to try and deceive. I stated earlier I welcome you converts. But lets not pretend that for many the only real isn't that we have a democrat in office now.

And it's still not new. I still don't support it. But it's not we all didn't know it was there and what could happen with it. Only mindlessly suddenly aware Obama haters now notice for the first time.

But I'll still are you, and pray a republican doesn't get elected and you forget all of the sudden.
Click to expand...

I am not pretending anything.

What Obama authorized was wrong.

If GWB did as well, he was wrong as well.

But that, imo, in NO WAY excuses Obama's actions.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
I am not pretending anything.

What Obama authorized was wrong.

If GWB did as well, he was wrong as well.

But that, imo, in NO WAY excuses Obama's actions.
Click to expand...


If? Are you really going to argue you visit these boards and no idea what Bush did? How old are you?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Boo Radley said:
If? Are you really going to argue you visit these boards and no idea what Bush did? How old are you?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Over 18.


Have a nice day.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
:rolleyes:

Over 18.


Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to make sure you weren't so young as to have missed it. Nothing more.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
Do G.W. Bush's actions excuse in any way what Obama does of his own free will?

Yes or no, please?
Click to expand...

No, it sets the precedent. Get it? it's not about the free will of one man, or two... it's about an apparatus that's in place across two administrations of two different parties. It's about the history of how we got here so we can learn from our mistakes.

This idea that it does not matter what happened in the past is complete crap! And I say that as much to you as to the equally myopic, short sighted, ignorant of history left.

This didn't start with Obama, but because it was not challenged in the Bush era, of course it would be continued and expanded upon, just as all the little Bushies were told it would when they passed it.

But it didn't start with Bush either...

I suggest you read this thread OP....
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/163672-real-history-domestic-spying.html
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

jmotivator said:
Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily




Seriously, spin that, Obama fans.
Click to expand...

Middleground said:
Seriously? This is old ****ing news. Where was your outrage during the Bush years?
Click to expand...

It's older than that...

Middleground said:
I'm talking specifically about general warrantless wiretapping. That can of worms was opened during the Bush era... in the name of protecting against terrorists. :roll:
Click to expand...

No, it was opened in the Clinton years by no other than.... Joe Biden. In the name of protecting us against terrorists.

That's right, Clinton and Biden drafted nearly identical legislation to the Patriot Act back in 1995...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/163672-real-history-domestic-spying.html
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

DA60 said:
Thank you.


Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

No problem.

Yes or No, does that change the reality that had Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft not pushed through the Patriot Act and set up the first data collection centers, Obama would not have been able to use it in the manner he did?

Yes or No, were you aware that before they were for the Patriot Act, the republicans were dead set against it?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Occam's Razor said:
No problem.

Yes or No, does that change the reality that had Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft not pushed through the Patriot Act and set up the first data collection centers, Obama would not have been able to use it in the manner he did?

Yes or No, were you aware that before they were for the Patriot Act, the republicans were dead set against it?
Click to expand...

Bush (a terrible POTUS) pushed through the Patriot Act - which is an Act I despise.

That does not excuse Obama's actions ( another terrible POTUS) at all.

You don't agree?

Take a wild guess if I care much?


We are done on this.


Have a nice day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom