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Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

ProNos said:
I don't see any problem with what the NSA is doing. All the fake outrage over a program that's vetted through 3 branches of government and is an important tool for capturing terrorists BEFORE they kill Americans. This is necessary and shall continue. Liberals can seem out of touch and silly in security matters and Conservatives, of course, are just plain silly regardless. If we continue to act naive about what measures are needed to protect the lives of the innocent then we should be prepared for the consequences. Of course post mortem we complain the government wasn't doing enough. Pathetic.
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How do you know its important or effective? Because govt told you so?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

poweRob said:
As I stated before paraphrasing Bob Barr, the previous presidents policies that make his ceiling become the floor of the next president that he then builds a new higher ceiling. When the legislature cedes power to the executive it is rarely if ever given back. This is what I meant with the Patriot Act. It's Bush's fault for building that fiasco and constructing that new ceiling and it's Obama's fault for agreeing to extend and use it. Especially when he initially ran on opposing it.
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Ok, well Bush isn't President anymore. So what are we going to do about Obama?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

PeteEU said:
No I am not okay with this, but there is nothing I can do about it and I have lived under this crap for decades.. you get use to it.
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There is absolutely something you can do about it.


PeteEU said:
And let me remind you that it was a corrupt right wing lunatic government and congress that put the whole bloody thing in place in the first place. And there are plenty of right wing lunatic and corrupt judges.
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It's been put on steroids and then some. I can give examples of corrupt left wing judges including the loser that just ok'ed a warrant for a reporter. Can you cite examples or is the extent of your proof of "right wing corrupt judges " in your post only ?



PeteEU said:
We knew it was around back then.. but the average American were too afraid and patriotic to notice. It amazes me that Americans accept GITMO and rendition and dont expect that your government does other similar things against everyone... oh yea they only do it to non-Americans bla bla .. bull****.
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When the stupidest of our electorate put in power a bunch of left wing ideologue activist they took the wire tapping and invasion of privacy to new heights and it had very little to do with " terrorist" or even foreigners.


PeteEU said:
It is not criminal.. it is in fact legal thanks to the right and its patriot act.
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Specific targeting of Americans reaching out to terrorist groups I can accept, a massive dragnet I cannot. Again, I'm not a Obama supporter, and therefore don't believe for a second this NSA action has anything top do with stopping terrorist acts. From the already exposed use of the IRS to specifically target Americans the use of the dragnet under Obama is to target Americans.

Remember Napolitano's inter agency warnings of returning Soldiers and their likely terrorist activities ?



PeteEU said:
The only corrupt ideology is one that says it defends freedom and pushes through an act like the Patriot act.. the name alone shows a disgusting fascist angel of the GOP.
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I think the criticism of the Patriot act is warranted, but the defense of a Hypocritical President who has increased the scope of the patriot act exponentially and has used it to target American citizens is not.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

jonny5 said:
So youre ok with Obama doing this?
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Don't care. I gave up on privacy under Herr Bush and Chancellor Cheney.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

jonny5 said:
Ok, well Bush isn't President anymore. So what are we going to do about Obama?
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lol... right.

Well I don't know about you but he definitely won't be getting my vote in 2016. Why? What is it you'd suggest now that you've decided to have 100% of your blame focus on him?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

jonny5 said:
How do you know its important or effective? Because govt told you so?
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The government doesn't need to tell us it's effective for a reasonable person to know it absolutely is. If you're trying to track down who, what, when, where and how then logically speaking these types of records are absolutely imperative. I don't need the government to tell me that's a good program. I know it is. The point of the program is to track calls headed into the U.S. from foreign nations. We need to know where and who these calls went to and from. This program is lawful and needed. In this case, we have the Congressional leadership briefed on the program and the FISA courts reviewing AND approving the warrant. We have legislative and judicial review of an executive program. On top of that, we cannot name one person, not one, out of hundreds of millions of Americans who've been the least inconvenienced or suffered some type of prosecution as a result of this program. Calls are not recorded anyway. The only thing the NSA is getting is the number to number data. At best most of the criticisms seem based on paranoia not on solid facts taken from the program.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

congressional oversight:

“I can assure you the phone number tracking of non-criminal, non-terrorist suspects was not discussed [at the administration's classified briefings],” said [Congressman Aaron] Schock. “Most members have stopped going to their classified briefings because they rarely tell us anything we don’t already know in the news. It really has become a charade.”
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Lawmakers rebut Obama's data defense - Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com

"By the way,” [Senator Jeff] Merkley continued. “When I sought information [on the phone surveillance program], the only information I got was that, yes there is a program sweeping up broad amounts of data through the records act. This second thing, which we just learned about, called PRISM, I had no idea about.”
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Dem. Senator disputes Obama's claims that Congress was briefed

The only lawmakers who knew about PRISM were bound by oaths of office to hold their tongues.
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U.S. is spying on Web servers - Philly.com
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Iron Yank said:
What was the worry then with the Democrats then when Nixon was in office if they had nothing to hid?

Then somehow you dont think that this information would ever be used for other puposes other than terrorism especially with this presidents record?

The man is a serial Liar and with all the scandals out there cannot be trusted, period. He has "Zero" credibility even with the NY Times at this point but somehow you still drone on that this is no big deal.
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Well he's keeping us safe as far as I can see. Boston was a drop in the bucket compared to what it could be, although I'm sure those that lost love ones or family injured don't feel that way.

There are lies and then things we don't need to know. Why do the American people and press feel they have to know everything but still want us safe?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

lilly said:
Well he's keeping us safe as far as I can see. Boston was a drop in the bucket compared to what it could be, although I'm sure those that lost love ones or family injured don't feel that way.

There are lies and then things we don't need to know. Why do the American people and press feel they have to know everything but still want us safe?
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There are ways to keep us safe and then there are ways to violate the rights of people. This is a case of the later.

However, security measures almost always violate the rights of people.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

ProNos said:
The government doesn't need to tell us it's effective for a reasonable person to know it absolutely is. If you're trying to track down who, what, when, where and how then logically speaking these types of records are absolutely imperative. I don't need the government to tell me that's a good program. I know it is. The point of the program is to track calls headed into the U.S. from foreign nations. We need to know where and who these calls went to and from. This program is lawful and needed. In this case, we have the Congressional leadership briefed on the program and the FISA courts reviewing AND approving the warrant. We have legislative and judicial review of an executive program. On top of that, we cannot name one person, not one, out of hundreds of millions of Americans who've been the least inconvenienced or suffered some type of prosecution as a result of this program. Calls are not recorded anyway. The only thing the NSA is getting is the number to number data. At best most of the criticisms seem based on paranoia not on solid facts taken from the program.
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Oh good, so why again do we "need" to know this kind of information? If you say safety, just know that is not satisfy.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

poweRob said:
lol... right.

Well I don't know about you but he definitely won't be getting my vote in 2016. Why? What is it you'd suggest now that you've decided to have 100% of your blame focus on him?
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I have not changed my assignment of blame. What I would suggest is throwing them all out, just like I always do.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

ProNos said:
The government doesn't need to tell us it's effective for a reasonable person to know it absolutely is. If you're trying to track down who, what, when, where and how then logically speaking these types of records are absolutely imperative. I don't need the government to tell me that's a good program. I know it is. The point of the program is to track calls headed into the U.S. from foreign nations. We need to know where and who these calls went to and from. This program is lawful and needed. In this case, we have the Congressional leadership briefed on the program and the FISA courts reviewing AND approving the warrant. We have legislative and judicial review of an executive program. On top of that, we cannot name one person, not one, out of hundreds of millions of Americans who've been the least inconvenienced or suffered some type of prosecution as a result of this program. Calls are not recorded anyway. The only thing the NSA is getting is the number to number data. At best most of the criticisms seem based on paranoia not on solid facts taken from the program.
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Its obvisouly not effective given we have had several succesful attacks on the homeland since Obama took office. You say paranoia. I say privacy.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Henrin said:
Oh good, so why again do we "need" to know this kind of information? If you say safety, just know that is not satisfy.
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It does make one wonder whom this administration thinks the terrorists are?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

jonny5 said:
I have not changed my assignment of blame. What I would suggest is throwing them all out, just like I always do.
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Obama is getting thrown out via term limits. the rest I can't much speak for.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

ap this am:

AP: Mounting controversies are all about trust

"We've got congressional oversight and judicial oversight," Obama said. "And if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust Congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we're abiding by the Constitution, due process and rule of law, then we're going to have some problems here."

The government is an enormous operation, and it's unrealistic to think it will operate smoothly all of the time. But, as the head of it, Obama faces the reality of all of his successors: The buck stops with him.
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as for oversight:

Lawmakers rebut Obama's data defense - POLITICO

Dem. Senator disputes Obama's claims that Congress was briefed - The Hill

Lawmakers who knew about PRISM were bound to silence - Philly.com

US government invokes special privilege to stop scrutiny of data mining | guardian.co.uk

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones

nyt: no credibility

NYT: Obama admin 'has lost all credibility'

do you disagree?

why did clapper lie to wyden, why did alexander lie to johnson?
 
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Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Henrin said:
Oh good, so why again do we "need" to know this kind of information? If you say safety, just know that is not satisfy.
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Anytime I hear it is being done for our safety:

Committee of Public Safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Committee of General Security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Committee of Public Safety and General Security were essential in removing the rights of French citizens...in the name of safety.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

j-mac said:
It does make one wonder whom this administration thinks the terrorists are?
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Why, the Tea Party Taliban. I honestly think that the administration actually believes that the public bought into that laughable characterization. Looks like they've out-schemed themselves on this one - and a few other incidents and events. IRS, Fast & Furious, Benghazi, AP, Rosen...It's a damn avalanche of abuse.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

jmotivator said:
Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily




Seriously, spin that, Obama fans.
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No spin needed. This is entirely legal and authorized under the Republican led Patriot Act. Funny how "conservatives" (really just hacks) complain now about a program they supported overwhelmingly during the Bush administration. I support the NSA program. All three branches of government are involved in oversight and it's the right thing to do for our security. The real spin here is the false outrage of some on the right. Now we have the right wing going soft on security just so they can score points (probably not) against Obama? That's pathetic. The real losers (along with Republicans last November :lol:) are the American people who need these programs to keep them safe. But security be damned--conservative haters of the Obama rant on--they need to bitch about Obama no matter what. "He's a socialist!!!" and all that other pathology they have circling in their head. Carry on. Republican politics is like watching the WWE now. Pure entertainment. Nothing serious.
 
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Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

poweRob said:
Obama is getting thrown out via term limits. the rest I can't much speak for.
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Well in the meantime we can focus pressure on the guy who is actually renewing this program, not the guy who signed the bill 10 years ago.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

ProNos said:
No spin needed. This is entirely legal and authorized under the Republican led Patriot Act. Funny how "conservatives" (really just hacks) complain now about a program they supported overwhelmingly during the Bush administration. I support the NSA program. All three branches of government are involved in oversight and it's the right thing to do for our security. The real spin here is the false outrage of some on the right. Now we have the right wing going soft on security just so they can score points (probably not) against Obama? That's pathetic. The real losers (along with Republicans last November :lol:) are the American people who need these programs to keep them safe. But security be damned--conservative haters of the Obama rant on--they need to bitch about Obama no matter what. "He's a socialist!!!" and all that other pathology they have circling in their head. Carry on. Republican politics is like watching the WWE now. Pure entertainment. Nothing serious.
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So youre OK with Obama doing this?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

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