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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    But the point is that it is wrong, no matther who is in office.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    But the point is that it is wrong, no matther who is in office.
    It seems that my post was mistaken for "BUT BUSH DID IT TOO SO ITS OKAY!LOL1!" This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.

    So give us an alternative and we'll talk. Until then, stop blaming Obama, and start blaming a system that believes we should only be allowed to have the choice of a)having our rights crapped on and b)having our rights crapped on.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    It seems that my post was mistaken for "BUT BUSH DID IT TOO SO ITS OKAY!LOL1!" This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.

    So give us an alternative and we'll talk. Until then, stop blaming Obama, and start blaming a system that believes we should only be allowed to have the choice of a)having our rights crapped on and b)having our rights crapped on.
    Ok, now I see what you are saying. And, I agree with you to a point.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Well I don't know how far it goes back, but it looks like its been going on longer than that, possibly since 2006.
    An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.
    Representatives of the Senate Intelligence committee are confirming this now...

    Dianne Feinstein: "It's called protecting America...this has been going on for the last 7 years"
    Saxby Chambliss: "This is nothing particularly new...this has been going on for 7 years under the auspices of FISA authority...Every member of the Senate has been advised of this"

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.
    Ari Fleischer: "Just to be clear...I support President Obama's anti-terror actions. They're bi-partisan now."

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    I know that this just came out in the news and everything, but are y'all really surprised that the government is checking your phone calls?

    I mean it was reported just last year that they were building a
    massive data center

    The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

    A guy from the NSA is worried

    NSA data center front and center in debate over liberty, security and privacy | Fox News

    If they are listening in on your telephone calls, what's to stop them from
    storing your info in that massive database? (and please don't tell me because some government official said so, they lie on a regular basis)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Is this a surprise? I'm pretty sure that most everything I do goes through an NSA search. The time to be ticked about this was in 2002, or 2003. It's one of the reasons why I left the GOP. All this talk of big brother government in the 90s, then Bush gets elected and we need to just give everything up.

    How do you think they figure out who to put on the terrorist watch lists?

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    No matter the administration, it is wrong in my eyes.
    Oh, I don't doubt you think it's wrong regardless of whose doing it. That's not what I'm suggesting.

    I'm suggesting you would've spent most of your time in those threads attacking Bush and expressing your disagerement and displeasure with the actions rather than barely saying two words of disapproval but making a multitude of posts just having a go at people expressing their displeasure. Which, fine...I'm used to that in politics. But when you are having a go at people with implications of them being hypocrites or acting differently in the two situations, then it kind of raises an eyebrow.

    I don't doubt you think it's wrong in both cases. But I think your REACTION to that wrongness is absolutely shaded differently.

    Also, let's be real. The Patriot Act and the various actions taken there weren't themselves born from nothing. ECHELON and CALEA are two such examples started with Democrats in the white house. Under Clinton, after the Olypmic bombing, similar ratcheting up of survelliance in the name of anti-terror occured (Digital Telephony, the Communications Assistant to Law Enforcement Act, Aviation Security and Anti-Terrosim Act, Anti-Terrorism Law Enforcement Act). As described in one artcile:

    Using the tragedies of TWA Flight 800 and the Olympic bombing in Atlanta to instill fear of terrorism in the heart of every American, our politicians are promising to make us safe and secure by giving the FBI the power to wiretap more of us with less judicial scrutiny, to access our personal and financial records with no judicial oversight, and to seize our assets by classifying us as "terrorists" based upon our personal and political beliefs.

    Link
    That's why the "BUT THE LAST GUY..." thing doesn't work so well. Because when it comes to politics, there's always a reasonable argument that "the last guy" was actually just building upon the same things "the last guy!" before him was doing, and so on and so on. Few things are the first instances of encroachment, it simply is another step...another step...another step.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I don't doubt you think it's wrong regardless of whose doing it. That's not what I'm suggesting.

    I'm suggesting you would've spent most of your time in those threads attacking Bush and expressing your disagerement and displeasure with the actions rather than barely saying two words of disapproval but making a multitude of posts just having a go at people expressing their displeasure. Which, fine...I'm used to that in politics. But when you are having a go at people with implications of them being hypocrites or acting differently in the two situations, then it kind of raises an eyebrow.

    I don't doubt you think it's wrong in both cases. But I think your REACTION to that wrongness is absolutely shaded differently.

    Also, let's be real. The Patriot Act and the various actions taken there weren't themselves born from nothing. ECHELON and CALEA are two such examples started with Democrats in the white house. Under Clinton, after the Olypmic bombing, similar ratcheting up of survelliance in the name of anti-terror occured (Digital Telephony, the Communications Assistant to Law Enforcement Act, Aviation Security and Anti-Terrosim Act, Anti-Terrorism Law Enforcement Act). As described in one artcile:



    That's why the "BUT THE LAST GUY..." thing doesn't work so well. Because when it comes to politics, there's always a reasonable argument that "the last guy" was actually just building upon the same things "the last guy!" before him was doing, and so on and so on. Few things are the first instances of encroachment, it simply is another step...another step...another step.


    Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I think most people are guilty of waiting for the next opposition government to come to power before they really complain. Unfortunately, to stop the ever growing surveillance state we need the whole country to stand up against it... but in a divided country it requires half of us to sacrifice more than the other simply because they have to support action against an administration that they otherwise support.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Poor helpless Obama. It's a shame he isn't as powerful as Booooooosh.
    They sold their souls to Obama

    We're living in a police state and the only thing they care about is defending their false idol. When confronted with facts they are unable to refute they bleet "4 legs good 2 legs bad B000SH!: like sheep.

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