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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    Who me? I find that highly unlikely friend. My biggest concern is getting through the first day here by staying civil and within the oconfines of the forum's rules. Which surely must take a dim view of your and DA's off topic behaviour. And for that reason I'm out unless we get back on topic.
    NO, the cranky boy who puts everyone on ignore who refuses to play by his expectations.

    Don't call me friend, pal...

    kidding

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    NO, the cranky boy who puts everyone on ignore who refuses to play by his expectations.

    Don't call me friend, pal...

    kidding
    Thanks, and sorry for the misunderstanding. Pal.
    And the other? LOL

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I actually understand and accept that. For some you either can some fun with them or ignore them. Not much else to choose from.
    Unfortunately, I think you are right.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    He didn't get the chance, the republicans forced it to be stripped from the bill before it passed. But he wanted it, why do you suppose that is?
    Nothing that I have read--nor googled--has eluded one iota to what you are stating as fact. Yes, I know Clinton (like all Presidents have done since) had increased the wiretapping program, but it was under Bush where wiretapping became possible without a warrant. In fact, even before the Patriot Act became law, the Bush Administration had illegally wiretapped in about 30 instances.

    I just watched Hoover, and even in the 50s, 60s and 70s, wiretapping was something that the government and government agencies practised. With passing time, techniques grew and became more sophisticated. But doing so without a warrant is a whole other can of worms, don't you think? It pretty much gives the government carte blanche on who they can spy on. Do you not think that this can lead to abuse?

    My point is, it's not a party issue. It's not a "who's in power now" issue. The Patriot Act opened the door... Biden wrote the first draft of the Patriot Act... initially including warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detentions, etc.
    It should not be a party issue, yet the rabid Obama haters are out in full force here at DP ready to impeach Obama for this 'scandal.' Even you, a member who claims to be impartial, has no issues with dropping Biden' and Clinton's names, attempting to tie them into the warrantless stuff without providing any links. Are you prepared to unequivocally stand behind your statements in post #625? Say if you were a respected journalist, would you--based-on your knowledge--state that from the get-go, Biden and Clinton stood behind warrantless wiretapping? My guess is no.

    Funny, I have been trying to put some perspective on this, yet I'm the one being called out for being partisan. ****ing hilarious, if you ask me. I just want the real facts laid out for people to form their opinions.

    It was never my intention to "prove" that Clinton performed such acts. Merely to point out the boundless myopia on both sides of this issue.
    So you say.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Nothing that I have read--nor googled--has eluded one iota to what you are stating as fact.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...ic-spying.html

    Here you will find links citing sources and the bill itself.

    Yes, I know Clinton (like all Presidents have done since) had increased the wiretapping program, but it was under Bush where wiretapping became possible without a warrant. In fact, even before the Patriot Act became law, the Bush Administration had illegally wiretapped in about 30 instances.
    You're missing the point. Biden wrote the first draft which included warrantless wiretapping. That draft became the Patriot Act with some minur reworking. My point is, this is not a partisan issue, not that Bush didn't open the door.

    I just watched Hoover, and even in the 50s, 60s and 70s, wiretapping was something that the government and government agencies practised. With passing time, techniques grew and became more sophisticated. But doing so without a warrant is a whole other can of worms, don't you think? It pretty much gives the government carte blanche on who they can spy on. Do you not think that this can lead to abuse?
    Of course, and I've been warning of this since CLINTON

    It should not be a party issue, yet the rabid Obama haters are out in full force here at DP ready to impeach Obama for this 'scandal.'
    So he shouldn't be impeached because Bush wasn't? At what point do we begin holding our elected public servants accountable to send a message to future administrations?

    Even you, a member who claims to be impartial, has no issues with dropping Biden' and Clinton's names, attempting to tie them into the warrantless stuff without providing any links. Are you prepared to unequivocally stand behind your statements in post #625? Say if you were a respected journalist, would you--based-on your knowledge--state that from the get-go, Biden and Clinton stood behind warrantless wiretapping? My guess is no.
    I've started a thread on the matter chock full of links, and I absolutely stand by my research.

    Funny, I have been trying to put some perspective on this, yet I'm the one being called out for being partisan. ****ing hilarious, if you ask me. I just want the real facts laid out for people to form their opinions.
    Follow the link... but the history plays no role in what should be done now. Do we send that message to the future, or do we just bicker the point until it passes, leaving the path to tyranny clear.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    The first ever Federal case about wiretapping was Olmstead, with Brandeis dissenting.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    So you say.
    This issue has really caused a lot of people to want to point out the hypocrisy on both sides by focusing on the hypocrisy of one side
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But there were warrants issued legally do you agree...secret or otherwise? Therefore, you can't say that the NSA broke the law just because the public wasn't aware that the surveillence program was in affect. This is different from the WARRANTLESS wiretaps of Nixon or the WARRANTLESS cellphone surveillences of GWB.
    No, I dont agree. The govt cant just get a warrant from the govt to do whatever it wants. And it surely cant do it secretly.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...ic-spying.html

    Here you will find links citing sources and the bill itself.
    And why is it that I have to wade though pages and pages of stuff, when you are the one making the claim? I went though a few pages and found zilch on either Biden or Clinton pushing for warrantless wiretapping. Please give me a direct link or I won't believe the claim.


    You're missing the point. Biden wrote the first draft which included warrantless wiretapping.
    I have yet to see this. I went to the bill page, did a search for "warrantless" and nothing came up. And, was he the only one involve in the writing?


    That draft became the Patriot Act with some minur reworking. My point is, this is not a partisan issue, not that Bush didn't open the door.
    As far as I know, it was the Bush administration that opened the door to warrantless wiretapping. Please show me that I'm wrong (direct links, please).


    So he shouldn't be impeached because Bush wasn't? At what point do we begin holding our elected public servants accountable to send a message to future administrations?
    I think the American public should be outraged by this, and do whatever it takes to stop these spying programs. Most disconcerning to me is the warrantless carte blance type of spying where there is no paper trail and accountability.


    Follow the link... but the history plays no role in what should be done now. Do we send that message to the future, or do we just bicker the point until it passes, leaving the path to tyranny clear.
    If you can direct link me to information on wireless wiretapping before the Bush Administration, I will be thankful.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Ron Paul on Cavuto Jun 18, 2013

    Ron Paul on Cavuto Jun 18, 2013 - YouTube

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