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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

  1. #411
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by ProNos View Post
    The government doesn't need to tell us it's effective for a reasonable person to know it absolutely is. If you're trying to track down who, what, when, where and how then logically speaking these types of records are absolutely imperative. I don't need the government to tell me that's a good program. I know it is. The point of the program is to track calls headed into the U.S. from foreign nations. We need to know where and who these calls went to and from. This program is lawful and needed. In this case, we have the Congressional leadership briefed on the program and the FISA courts reviewing AND approving the warrant. We have legislative and judicial review of an executive program. On top of that, we cannot name one person, not one, out of hundreds of millions of Americans who've been the least inconvenienced or suffered some type of prosecution as a result of this program. Calls are not recorded anyway. The only thing the NSA is getting is the number to number data. At best most of the criticisms seem based on paranoia not on solid facts taken from the program.
    Oh good, so why again do we "need" to know this kind of information? If you say safety, just know that is not satisfy.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    lol... right.

    Well I don't know about you but he definitely won't be getting my vote in 2016. Why? What is it you'd suggest now that you've decided to have 100% of your blame focus on him?
    I have not changed my assignment of blame. What I would suggest is throwing them all out, just like I always do.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by ProNos View Post
    The government doesn't need to tell us it's effective for a reasonable person to know it absolutely is. If you're trying to track down who, what, when, where and how then logically speaking these types of records are absolutely imperative. I don't need the government to tell me that's a good program. I know it is. The point of the program is to track calls headed into the U.S. from foreign nations. We need to know where and who these calls went to and from. This program is lawful and needed. In this case, we have the Congressional leadership briefed on the program and the FISA courts reviewing AND approving the warrant. We have legislative and judicial review of an executive program. On top of that, we cannot name one person, not one, out of hundreds of millions of Americans who've been the least inconvenienced or suffered some type of prosecution as a result of this program. Calls are not recorded anyway. The only thing the NSA is getting is the number to number data. At best most of the criticisms seem based on paranoia not on solid facts taken from the program.
    Its obvisouly not effective given we have had several succesful attacks on the homeland since Obama took office. You say paranoia. I say privacy.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh good, so why again do we "need" to know this kind of information? If you say safety, just know that is not satisfy.
    It does make one wonder whom this administration thinks the terrorists are?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    I have not changed my assignment of blame. What I would suggest is throwing them all out, just like I always do.

    Obama is getting thrown out via term limits. the rest I can't much speak for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    ap this am:

    AP: Mounting controversies are all about trust

    "We've got congressional oversight and judicial oversight," Obama said. "And if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust Congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we're abiding by the Constitution, due process and rule of law, then we're going to have some problems here."

    The government is an enormous operation, and it's unrealistic to think it will operate smoothly all of the time. But, as the head of it, Obama faces the reality of all of his successors: The buck stops with him.
    as for oversight:

    Lawmakers rebut Obama's data defense - POLITICO

    Dem. Senator disputes Obama's claims that Congress was briefed - The Hill

    Lawmakers who knew about PRISM were bound to silence - Philly.com

    US government invokes special privilege to stop scrutiny of data mining | guardian.co.uk

    Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones

    nyt: no credibility

    NYT: Obama admin 'has lost all credibility'

    do you disagree?

    why did clapper lie to wyden, why did alexander lie to johnson?
    Last edited by Gina; 06-10-13 at 05:33 PM.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh good, so why again do we "need" to know this kind of information? If you say safety, just know that is not satisfy.
    Anytime I hear it is being done for our safety:

    Committee of Public Safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Committee of General Security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Committee of Public Safety and General Security were essential in removing the rights of French citizens...in the name of safety.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Obama is getting thrown out via term limits
    President Obama's Transcript of Talk in San Jose | NBC Bay Area

    I will leave this office at some point, sometime in the next three and a half years...

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It does make one wonder whom this administration thinks the terrorists are?
    Why, the Tea Party Taliban. I honestly think that the administration actually believes that the public bought into that laughable characterization. Looks like they've out-schemed themselves on this one - and a few other incidents and events. IRS, Fast & Furious, Benghazi, AP, Rosen...It's a damn avalanche of abuse.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No spin needed. This is entirely legal and authorized under the Republican led Patriot Act. Funny how "conservatives" (really just hacks) complain now about a program they supported overwhelmingly during the Bush administration. I support the NSA program. All three branches of government are involved in oversight and it's the right thing to do for our security. The real spin here is the false outrage of some on the right. Now we have the right wing going soft on security just so they can score points (probably not) against Obama? That's pathetic. The real losers (along with Republicans last November ) are the American people who need these programs to keep them safe. But security be damned--conservative haters of the Obama rant on--they need to bitch about Obama no matter what. "He's a socialist!!!" and all that other pathology they have circling in their head. Carry on. Republican politics is like watching the WWE now. Pure entertainment. Nothing serious.
    Last edited by ProNos; 06-10-13 at 05:08 PM.
    It is ideas, not vested interests, which are dangerous for good or evil. - John Maynard Keynes

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