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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

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    Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is a spawn from bush, he created the "total information awareness" program. And the collection of cellphone data goes back to the 1991 telecommunications act...

    Those were all conspiracy theories back then, and now we are surprised to find out that they are collecting data from all cell phones everywhere???

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    This is a spawn from bush, he created the "total information awareness" program. And the collection of cellphone data goes back to the 1991 telecommunications act...

    Those were all conspiracy theories back then, and now we are surprised to find out that they are collecting data from all cell phones everywhere???
    So youre ok with Obama doing this?

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Like I said, I was never under the impression you don't agree with Ikari or that you agree with what Obama's doing. My issue is was that your condemnation of it was tepid at best in presentation, and FAR more tepid then your condemnation when Bush was in power...meaning you were acting differently then you had under Bush, just as you were accusing others of doing.

    I am saying what Ikari is doing in this thread and what you're doing in this thread is not essentially the same thing, becuase they're not.

    Ikari in this thread has been primarily focused and consistent in condemning those that do this, be it Obama or Bush, and has focused almost entirely on that condemnation.

    Your focus on this thread had largely been in condemning people for not complaining about this when Bush was in power, and arguing its hypocritical to go after Obama now.

    Ikari gave a passing amount of interest and lip service into the "bunch of hypocrites" argument similar to how you gave a passing amount of interest and lip service into the "this is bad and Obama's bad for doing it" argument.

    That's why I'm saying it wasn't similar. I've stated now three times in this thread that I fully understand that you don't agree with this action. That was never my contention. My contention was that as you're spending more time bitching about things OTHER than condemnation of the actual act, which is different then you would've done had this been Bush and Republicans in power with this story...and thus your implications of others as hypocrites is hollow.
    Once again, Zyph, I had to set the OP straight. Amazing that you don't see the partisanship in his OP but call me out instead . Pretty damn hollow, if you ask me.

    But I digress. If my posts below do not do a good enough job of showing my disgust for Obama keeping up with the program, then what would be good enough for you? Shall I get a "Obama is Big Brother" tattoo on my ass, or, ever better, get one of those planes that tow a sign that reads, "Obama is a spy, it's Plame as day...".

    You're unreal. Of all the partisan **** here at DP that you want to call out (and there are ****ing tons, let alone in this thread), you pick on someone who is not taking the side of his/her lean?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061892994

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061892999

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061893365

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061893378

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061893384

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061897552
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily


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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    This is a spawn from bush, he created the "total information awareness" program. And the collection of cellphone data goes back to the 1991 telecommunications act...

    Those were all conspiracy theories back then, and now we are surprised to find out that they are collecting data from all cell phones everywhere???
    I wasn't aware that W was President in 1991.....? With that said, you do have a point in that we allow things to happen that later become problems then say to ourselves, "what the....?"
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Props for you on saying this one.

    It's funny how the style of argument doesn't cross over at times for people when it doesn't suit them.

    Republicans are LAMBASTED when they get caught in a sex scandal. Treated with utter disdain by the media, open ridicule by Democrats, and held up as the pinnacle example of how hypocritical "republicans" as a whole are for the actions of single individuals. When confronted about this, the most common response is thus:

    "They put themselves out there as the traditional family values party, they put themselves out there as the moral authority, so they deserve to be treated harsher when they fail to live up to it because that makes them hypocrites on top of whatever else they did".

    For 7 years the Democrats put themselves out there as a party against the infringing of peoples 4th amendment rights when it came to survellience, against the notion of this "big government" stance on the "War on Terror", and against violation of rights in the name of "security" against "terrorism". They took power in a campaign built around a message of "Change" from politics as usual and a move away from the policies of George Bush. And when asked about things like this program, or drone strikes on US citizens abroad, and other such things so often you hear:

    "It's no different than what Bush did! They're just doing what Bush did and you didn't say anything about him! yeah it's bad but... I mean Bush did it and you didn't say anything, so so what?"

    I guess for many, that standard in terms of "expecting more out of..." a group because of what they campaigned on and what their partys message was only applies when it comes to boning.
    Thanks for the props, but it seems like you're immersed in your own partisanship. You're more focused on calling out liberals than just saying that this NSA situation is a problem. Even further, you're focusing on liberal partisanship when there is plenty of conservative partisanship in the thread too - starting with the literal first post of the thread.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Thanks for the props, but it seems like you're immersed in your own partisanship. You're more focused on calling out liberals than just saying that this NSA situation is a problem. Even further, you're focusing on liberal partisanship when there is plenty of conservative partisanship in the thread too - starting with the literal first post of the thread.
    Is poor behavior always justified if one can point to another's bad behavior?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is poor behavior always justified if one can point to another's bad behavior?
    We need a debatepolitics Elementary School.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is poor behavior always justified if one can point to another's bad behavior?
    I don't know why you're addressing this to me since I haven't said anything to suggest the answer to that question is yes.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Thanks for the props, but it seems like you're immersed in your own partisanship. You're more focused on calling out liberals than just saying that this NSA situation is a problem. Even further, you're focusing on liberal partisanship when there is plenty of conservative partisanship in the thread too - starting with the literal first post of the thread.
    Absolutely, boht sides are being partisan and both sides are being hypocrites about things at times. Check out post #257 to Powerrob where I basically say as much. I'm less annoyed at the partisanship than I am at the hypocritical attempts to complain about hypocrisy. At thte time I had put up that post, from the posts I read in the thread, the majority of those trying to scream about hypocritical response to this was Democrats, not Republicans. Thus my comments concerning hypocritical responses, NOT partisanship, were somewhat more liberal focused.

    (admittedly, I basically ignore Prof's posts because

    trying to respond

    to a person who types

    like this all the time

    when he's speaking

    Drives me batty so I've just largely given up interacting with him in any way. So I'm sure I probably missed some there)

    Though a peak back, it did seem in the midst of discussing things with a couple of posters I did miss a few republicans trying to bitch about hypocrisy on the left such as American

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Remember how the Left beat Bush half to death over the Patriot Act? Now here these hypocrites are taking that law to insane limits. And since they and the IRS appear to be such busy-bodies, there's no telling what inane purpose they've contrived to justify their actions.
    Which would make me wonder if he Remembered how the Right breathlessly defended Bush over PATRIOT Act and how, using his terms, these "hypocrites" are complaining about the law being used in relatively similar manners.

    I've never really had issue with calling out people, left or right, in terms of these things it just usally falls to what I read first.

    But yeah, I'm not focused on calling the "NSA situation a problem" because I don't really know if I think it is. As I said in my very first post, I'm not actually sure how I feel about this and I definitely don't feel it's something that we need to seriously rattle the sabers about OBAMA over, though perhaps something to rattle things over in terms of the program itself. We're moving further and further from the tipping point in terms of the balance of liberty/security, so i would hope to see this kind of thing declining rather than remaining static or increasing, but ultimately I see this in a light similar to what I saw it under the Bush Administration. An understandable possible over reach that may end up needing legal or legislative action to stop but that I'm not massively bothered by or feel that the person in charge at the time needs to be destroyed for it as I don't believe it's being done for nefarious purposes.

    On this issue, outside of the notion that we need to remove the Patroit Act as a whole, I don't really have a strong feeling either way nor do I really begrudge people who have a strong feeling to either diretion on it. I'm just annoyed by EITHER side acting like their side, on the whole, is acting in a consistent fashion comparitive to a decade ago and using said attitude as a means of attack.

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