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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

  1. #251
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I admire your candor!

    I was one of those condemning the patriot act from its beginning. It was unconstitutional then, and it's unconstitutional now. It nullified the Fourth Amendment then, and we're seeing now the results of 10 years of unconstitutional governance.

    When we reject constitutional government, this is what we get. We have forsaken the US Constitution, and this is what we get.
    Sadly, I think we are hurling down the road to unreturnable authoritarian, quasi police state, or worse. And if this continues, with the people following like lemmings, can we, will we come back to our senses? I don't know.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sadly, I think we are hurling down the road to unreturnable authoritarian, quasi police state, or worse. And if this continues, with the people following like lemmings, can we, will we come back to our senses? I don't know.
    Wow, we agree on something. I'd suggest we call Ripley's, but then the government would listen in.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  3. #253
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Did I say you did?
    No, but the question in and of itself was rather stupid seeing as absolutely nothing I wrote suggested that I would accept the behavior anymore from one man than from another.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    You're such a partisan!11!1!!1!!1 How dare you bring Bush in this discussion!11!!!!!!11!!

    (PS. I got lambasted for saying pretty much the same thing.)
    No, not the same thing.

    Ikari blasted this kind of thing under Bush, and he's spent a fair bit of time in this thread Blasting it under Obama as well. His first post clearly was condemning Obama and this action along with Bush. His subsequent posts all in some way tended to go after Obama. His reactions to it, not just his feeling baout if it's good or bad, have been pretty consistent.

    You went after Bush for this kind of stuff, but spent the majority of your posts in this thread running deflection for Obama by just scolding republicans for not having an issue with this before and giving only a passing one line condemnation for this here and there. Your first post was just saying it was old news and complained about people not being outraged about Bush. Your feeling about it is consistent, but your reactions absolutely aren't.

    Was going to leave the discussion where it was last, but since you put this little shot in clearly referencing our back and forth I figured I'd clarify.

    No, what you were doing in this thread and what Ikari was doing is in no way "pretty much the same thing". Ikari has been going after Obama as much, if not more, than Bush in this thread and been primarily spending his time saying "this is bad" in some fashion. You spent most of your time going "Where were you when Bush was doing this" and simply complaining that people who weren't complaining about it under bush are complaining about it now.

    His posts focused on calling this out as bad, be it Bush or Obama. Your posts largely focused on calling out others as bad for not calling it out when Bush was in power.

    That's not "pretty much the same" at all.
    Last edited by Zyphlin; 06-07-13 at 11:05 AM.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Former Republican congressman and Libertarian Prez candidate Bob Barr said a bit back that presidents tend to take the ceiling built by the previous president and make it their floor and build upon that making a new ceiling.
    Heh, not heard that one. That's a pretty good line, and pretty accurate.

  6. #256
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Question is, why haven't liberals gotten rid of it?
    Democrats = Republicans. At least where it really matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Where the hell were you guys when the secret AT&T closet was found and Qwest was found out to be the only phone company to tell the government to go to hell when the gov asked them to turn over their phone call records? Nowhere to be found is where you guys were.
    I think you have a few different groups of people from my observations on this forum over the years...

    1. Those who have an issue with it entirely, and speak vocally about it every time
    2. Those who have an issue with it when it's not "their guy" and speak vocally about it, but don't have any issue with it when its "their guy"
    3. Those who have an issue with it in principle, but mostly speak privately or tepidly negative about it for a variety of reasons when its "their guy" but loudly otherwise
    4. Those who have an issue with it in principle, but mostly speak privately or tepidly negative about it for a variety of reasons no matter whose in power
    5. Those who had no issue with it, regardless of whose in power

    Those are generally the five categories you most commonly see.

    Sadly, there seems to be a ridiculous small number who fell into #1, #4, or #5 both under Bush and under Obama. It seems that the vast majority of people fall into categories #2 or #3. Being loud when it was the "other sides" guy, and either being entirely silent or amazingly tepid in condemnation when it was "their guy".

    However, while unfortunate, I don't get too upset in principle with people in the 3rd category because it's pretty much the norm in politics and really more "tribal" situations.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Ikari's first post clearly is still clearly condemning of Obama and this action.
    Ridiculous. Please take notice who thanked him, m'kay. Jeepers.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, but the question in and of itself was rather stupid seeing as absolutely nothing I wrote suggested that I would accept the behavior anymore from one man than from another.
    Which is why I was seeking clarification. Edit: i can see you later did take a position, so nevermind. We agree what Obama is doing wrong.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Ridiculous. Please take notice who thanked him, m'kay. Jeepers.
    Like I said, I was never under the impression you don't agree with Ikari or that you agree with what Obama's doing. My issue is was that your condemnation of it was tepid at best in presentation, and FAR more tepid then your condemnation when Bush was in power...meaning you were acting differently then you had under Bush, just as you were accusing others of doing.

    I am saying what Ikari is doing in this thread and what you're doing in this thread is not essentially the same thing, becuase they're not.

    Ikari in this thread has been primarily focused and consistent in condemning those that do this, be it Obama or Bush, and has focused almost entirely on that condemnation.

    Your focus on this thread had largely been in condemning people for not complaining about this when Bush was in power, and arguing its hypocritical to go after Obama now.

    Ikari gave a passing amount of interest and lip service into the "bunch of hypocrites" argument similar to how you gave a passing amount of interest and lip service into the "this is bad and Obama's bad for doing it" argument.

    That's why I'm saying it wasn't similar. I've stated now three times in this thread that I fully understand that you don't agree with this action. That was never my contention. My contention was that as you're spending more time bitching about things OTHER than condemnation of the actual act, which is different then you would've done had this been Bush and Republicans in power with this story...and thus your implications of others as hypocrites is hollow.

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