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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

  1. #121
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    When was this order issued ?
    The order to spy on the Soviets and people involved on the left of politics world wide? Well no one really knows since it is a big secret, but since the whole cold war started after WW2.. then about that time.
    PeteEU

  2. #122
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    you've been talking before you finished your reading again

    how much time did you spend researching this one, 90 seconds?

    why are you so lazy?

    your opinion is worthless

    The National Security Agency has long justified its spying powers by arguing that its charter allows surveillance on those outside of the United States, while avoiding intrusions into the private communications of American citizens. But the latest revelation of the extent of the NSA’s surveillance shows that it has focused specifically on Americans, to the degree that its data collection has in at least one major spying incident explicitly excluded those outside the United States.

    In a top secret order obtained by the Guardian news published Wednesday evening, the FBI on the NSA’s behalf demanded that Verizon turn over all metadata for phone records originating in the United States for the three months beginning in late April and ending on the 19th of July.

    Aside from the sheer scope of that surveillance order, reminiscent of the warrantless wiretapping scandal under the Bush administration, the other shocking aspect of the order its target: The order specifically states that only data regarding calls originating in America are to be handed over, not those between foreigners.

    “It is hereby ordered that [Verizon Business Network Services'] Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency…all call detail records or ‘telephony metadata’ created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United States and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls,” the Guardian’s copy of the order reads. “This Order does not require Verizon to include telephony metadata for communications wholly originating and terminating in foreign countries.”

    Though the classified, top secret order comes from the FBI, it clearly states that the data is to be given to the NSA. That means the leaked document may serve as one of the first concrete pieces of evidence that the NSA’s spying goes beyond foreigners to include Americans, despite its charter specifically disallowing surveillance of those within the United States.

    In many ways it’s even more troubling than [Bush era] warrantless wiretapping, in part because the program is purely domestic,” says Alex Abdo, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project.”But this is also an indiscriminate dragnet. Say what you will about warrantless wiretapping, at least it was targeted at agents of Al Qaeda. This includes every customer of Verizon Business Services.”

    The leaked document, in fact, is labelled as an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, a body whose powers were created under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 and then broadened after the September 11th, 2001 attacks, with the purpose of intercepting communications between foreign agents and those between enemies abroad and their agents within the U.S. Similarly, the NSA’s charter states that it focuses on interception and analysis of foreign communications, not those within the United States.

    In fact, the Verizon order may be just a glimpse of a much larger surveillance program. It’s unclear whether other carriers, not to mention Internet giants like Google, Microsoft and Facebook, have been caught up in similar domestic surveillance, or how long that surveillance has been taking place. But as the Guardian notes, Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udall have issued cryptic warnings for the last two years that the Obama administration has engaged in widespread surveillance of Americans.

    Other phone carriers including AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint all responded to a congressional inquiry on government surveillance last year, stating that they had turned over hundreds of thousands of users' records to law enforcement agencies, though that inquiry didn’t focus on intelligence agency requests.

    In a congressional hearing in March of last year, the NSA’s Director Keith Alexander responded to questions from Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson, who brought up allegations of the NSA’s domestic spying made in a Wired magazine article earlier that month, denying fourteen times that the NSA intercepted Americans’ communications.

    “What judicial consent is required for NSA to intercept communications and information involving American citizens?” Johnson asked at the time.

    “Within the United States, that would be the FBI lead,” responded Alexander. “If it were a foreign actor in the United States, the FBI would still have to lead. It could work that with NSA or other intelligence agencies as authorized. But to conduct that kind of collection in the United States it would have to go through a court order, and the court would have to authorize it. We’re not authorized to do it, nor do we do it."
    NSA's Verizon Spying Order Specifically Targeted Americans, Not Foreigners - Forbes

  3. #123
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is probable cause, as demonstrated by the fact that a warrant was issued.
    No, that's not how it works and would only protect the NSA from future civil litigation (they can rightfully assert they had a warrant). The FISA judge in this case must believe there is probable cause, but he can be proven wrong in any court case where info derived from the warrant is used by the prosecution. At that point everything collected under the warrant is no longer available for use by the prosecution. Further the defendents involved can sue civilly at that point.

  4. #124
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    telephone metadata is not simply data about calls.

    It is also the constant communication your phone has with the various towers. This is data that allows the government to track your movements via your phone. you don't need to place calls at all to be tracked.

    that link is bs

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Here's a breakdown on how our Congress Critters and Senate Snake voted for all this BS FWIW.

    Here's Exactly Who to Blame in Congress for Authorizing Government Spying

    Your Phone Records

    We looked at seven Congressional actions generally and five in particular to assess how the government's power to collect data has evolved. From October 2001 to last December, Congress continually voted to expand or continue the government's power to collect private data, ostensibly to bolster efforts to stop terrorist activity. In addition to the PATRIOT Act, Congress has also renewed provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA — the law that established the court which issued the Verizon order.
    I confess, I did it, I let the dogs out.

  6. #126
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    the gray lady:

    The Obama administration is secretly carrying out a domestic surveillance program under which it is collecting business communications records involving Americans under a hotly debated section of the Patriot Act, according to a highly classified court order disclosed on Wednesday night.

    It is not clear whether similar orders have gone to other parts of Verizon, like its residential or cellphone services, or to other telecommunications carriers. The order prohibits its recipient from discussing its existence, and representatives of both Verizon and AT&T declined to comment Wednesday evening.

    The order was marked “TOP SECRET//SI//NOFORN,” referring to communications-related intelligence information that may not be released to noncitizens. That would make it among the most closely held secrets in the federal government, and its disclosure comes amid a furor over the Obama administration’s aggressive tactics in its investigations of leaks.

    The collection of communications logs — or calling “metadata” — is believed to be a major component of the Bush administration’s program of surveillance that took place without court orders. The newly disclosed order raised the question of whether the government continued that type of information collection by bringing it under the Patriot Act.

    For several years, two Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon and Senator Mark Udall of Colorado, have been cryptically warning that the government was interpreting its surveillance powers under that section of the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming to the public if it knew about it.

    “We believe most Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted Section 215 of the Patriot Act,” they wrote last year in a letter to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.

    They added: “As we see it, there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows. This is a problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what the law should say when the public doesn’t know what its government thinks the law says.”

    The senators were angry because the Obama administration described Section 215 orders as being similar to a grand jury subpoena for obtaining business records, like a suspect’s hotel or credit card records, in the course of an ordinary criminal investigation. The senators said the secret interpretation of the law was nothing like that.

    The New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit in 2011 for a report describing the government’s interpretation of its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. But the Obama administration withheld the report, and a judge dismissed the case.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/us....html?hp&_r=1&

  7. #127
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, that's not how it works and would only protect the NSA from future civil litigation (they can rightfully assert they had a warrant). The FISA judge in this case must believe there is probable cause, but he can be proven wrong in any court case where info derived from the warrant is used by the prosecution. At that point everything collected under the warrant is no longer available for use by the prosecution. Further the defendents involved can sue civilly at that point.
    Until you can show that there was no probable cause, there is no reason to believe anything you say concerning the issue.
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Doesn't Smith v. Maryland render the 4th Amendment argument invalid in this instance?
    Smith v. Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I suppose it could but in looking into this a little more is sure seems that the definition of a "pen register" has been greatly expanded.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    It is very depressing to realize that neither of our major parties has any interest whatsoever in protecting our right to privacy. The Obama administration has proved to be just as hostile to the fourth amendment protection against warrantless searches as the Bush administration was. On one hand, it's nice to know that this sort of thing isn't a partisan issue. On the other hand, it's only that way because neither side seems to care.

    This crap needs to stop. If there was ever a reason for a bipartisan, grassroots movement to exist, this is it.
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Sensenbrenner, the author of the Patriot Act, doesn't like this. "As the author of the Patriot Act, I am extremely troubled by the FBI’s interpretation of this legislation. While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses. The Bureau’s broad application for phone records was made under the so-called business records provision of the Act. I do not believe the broadly drafted FISA order is consistent with the requirements of the Patriot Act. Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American."

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