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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

  1. #111
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    For every person using Verizon, yeah, that's a good warrant. NOT.
    There is still a warrant.

    And lets not forget...

    ECHELON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is so far from new... that it is funny that it is being used to attack Obama, when it has been going on since forever.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    For every person using Verizon, yeah, that's a good warrant. NOT.
    Good or bad is opinion

    The *fact* remains that there is nothing illegal about it, and it was dishonest for Bronson to claim that this somehow contradicts Obama's promise to stop *warrantless* wiretaps.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily | World news | The Guardian

    The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to gie the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

    The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulkregardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

    The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

    The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

    While the order itself does not include either the contents of messages or the personal information of the subscriber of any particular cell number, its collection would allow the NSA to build easily a comprehensive picture of who any individual contacted, how and when, and possibly from where, retrospectively.

    It is not known whether Verizon is the only cell-phone provider to be targeted with such an order, although previous reporting has suggested the NSA has collected cell records from all major mobile networks. It is also unclear from the leaked document whether the three-month order was a one-off, or the latest in a series of similar orders.

    The court order appears to explain the numerous cryptic public warnings by two US senators, Ron Wyden and Mark Udall, about the scope of the Obama administration's surveillance activities.

    For roughly two years, the two Democrats have been stridently advising the public that the US government is relying on "secret legal interpretations" to claim surveillance powers so broad that the American public would be "stunned" to learn of the kind of domestic spying being conducted.

    In a letter to attorney general Eric Holder last year, they argued that "there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows."

    These recent events reflect how profoundly the NSA's mission has transformed from an agency exclusively devoted to foreign intelligence gathering, into one that focuses increasingly on domestic communications.

  4. #114
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Good or bad is opinion

    The *fact* remains that there is nothing illegal about it, and it was dishonest for Bronson to claim that this somehow contradicts Obama's promise to stop *warrantless* wiretaps.
    No, I think it's a bad warrant in view of the law. And Bronson has it correct, this blanket warrant violates the spirit of everthing Obama promised. Everything he said applies here.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Good or bad is opinion

    The *fact* remains that there is nothing illegal about it, and it was dishonest for Bronson to claim that this somehow contradicts Obama's promise to stop *warrantless* wiretaps.
    The 4th amendment requires probable cause before a warrant can be issued. A warrant issued without probable cause would, presumably, be invalid and the subsequent search illegal. In this case it appears that the government has decided that normal communication between US citizens constitutes sufficient probable cause to issue a warrant and conduct a search. Maybe it's just me but I don't see any way in hell that the case for probable cause in this matter has been made.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    funny, just last week, in an attempt to get away from the irs, et al, the naval contemplating president pretty much (he's always so ambiguous) declared the war on terror over

    President Obama debates himself - Glenn Thrush - POLITICO.com

    he also (in, however, his characteristically implicit rather than explicit way) announced we won

    hooray!

  7. #117
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    The 4th amendment requires probable cause before a warrant can be issued. A warrant issued without probable cause would, presumably, be invalid and the subsequent search illegal. In this case it appears that the government has decided that normal communication between US citizens constitutes sufficient probable cause to issue a warrant and conduct a search. Maybe it's just me but I don't see any way in hell that the case for probable cause in this matter has been made.
    Doesn't Smith v. Maryland render the 4th Amendment argument invalid in this instance?
    Smith v. Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is still a warrant.


    And lets not forget...

    ECHELON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is so far from new... that it is funny that it is being used to attack Obama, when it has been going on since forever.
    When was this order issued ?

  9. #119
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    The 4th amendment requires probable cause before a warrant can be issued. A warrant issued without probable cause would, presumably, be invalid and the subsequent search illegal. In this case it appears that the government has decided that normal communication between US citizens constitutes sufficient probable cause to issue a warrant and conduct a search. Maybe it's just me but I don't see any way in hell that the case for probable cause in this matter has been made.
    There is probable cause, as demonstrated by the fact that a warrant was issued.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #120
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    What's to stop anyone from installing an app to encrypt calls?

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