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Thread: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

  1. #91
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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    You're still blaming someone else. It's pathetic.

    Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me | News Blogs - CNET News



    Now he's acting like a Fascist. Why are you supporting Fascism? Explain yourself.

    The right wing in this thread: we will criticize Obama for failing in the area of civil liberties and privacy, but we won't even discuss providing an electable right wing alternative who respects civil liberties and privacy.

    Thanks guys. You rock.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Remember how the Left beat Bush half to death over the Patriot Act? Now here these hypocrites are taking that law to insane limits. And since they and the IRS appear to be such busy-bodies, there's no telling what inane purpose they've contrived to justify their actions.
    Don't forget

    This tyrannical administration is also demanding you hand over your guns to the Government. They are still actively trying to repeal the 2nd amendment. Who has spent months on these boards demanding that Obama be given the right to take your guns away? Liberals

    The Left has turned Fascist

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The right wing in this thread: we will criticize Obama for failing in the area of civil liberties and privacy, but we won't even discuss providing an electable right wing alternative who respects civil liberties and privacy.

    Thanks guys. You rock.
    This is laughable. Your failure is the fact that you need someone else to tell you who an alternative to this tyranny is. Remember Rand Paul's filibuster? Oh that's right, what did you say about that again? You're pathetically trying to obfuscate and change the subject. Shameless.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So one wonders what they do with that information? Flag customers who make call to certain countries? It has to be something like that. ??
    That doesn't look to be the case.

    The article says specifically they're requesting information on all calls, both foreign and domestic.

    I suppose I could even partially defend Pres. Obama if he was only targeting calls to select regions of the world known for terrorism. That doesn't make it right, of course, but I could certainly see the argument that he's honestly just trying to thwart terrorism in that case. Apparently he wants to know what we're all doing at any time.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah, but that was going in the opposite direction. Basically, if the suicide-bomber-facilitator in Quetta made a sudden phone call to New York, we didn't stop collecting just because the other end of the line was in New York - we waited to see who was getting called by suicide-bomber-facilitators from Pakistan.

    This seems more like collecting every single American phone records, and sifting through them to see who's been naughty or nice.

    It's the difference between a policeman having probable cause, and searching you just to see if anything turns up.
    Actually, this particular request seems to have explicitly excluded any entirely foreign communications.
    “It is hereby ordered that [Verizon Business Network Services'] Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency…all call detail records or ‘telephony metadata’ created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United States and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls,” the Guardian’s copy of the order reads. “This Order does not require Verizon to include telephony metadata for communications wholly originating and terminating in foreign countries.”
    NSA's Verizon Spying Order Specifically Targeted Americans, Not Foreigners - Forbes

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I don't doubt you think it's wrong regardless of whose doing it. That's not what I'm suggesting.

    I'm suggesting you would've spent most of your time in those threads attacking Bush and expressing your disagerement and displeasure with the actions rather than barely saying two words of disapproval but making a multitude of posts just having a go at people expressing their displeasure. Which, fine...I'm used to that in politics. But when you are having a go at people with implications of them being hypocrites or acting differently in the two situations, then it kind of raises an eyebrow.
    Good golly, Zyph... did you read the OP???? Frankly it stops just short of trolling. And for the love of God, why do you call it "attacking" Bush when all I am doing is setting the facts straight???

    I don't doubt you think it's wrong in both cases. But I think your REACTION to that wrongness is absolutely shaded differently.
    Fine, you have a right to your opinion.

    Also, let's be real. The Patriot Act and the various actions taken there weren't themselves born from nothing. ECHELON and CALEA are two such examples started with Democrats in the white house. Under Clinton, after the Olypmic bombing, similar ratcheting up of survelliance in the name of anti-terror occured (Digital Telephony, the Communications Assistant to Law Enforcement Act, Aviation Security and Anti-Terrosim Act, Anti-Terrorism Law Enforcement Act). As described in one artcile:
    Yes, but from what I understand, you needed a court-approved warrant to do so. That's what keeps these spying programs from getting out of hand, IMO. But since the Bush Administration--or, pretty much the Patriot Act--that has changed. That is the biggie, eye-opening change.

    That's why the "BUT THE LAST GUY..." thing doesn't work so well.
    Like you just did above?


    Because when it comes to politics, there's always a reasonable argument that "the last guy" was actually just building upon the same things "the last guy!" before him was doing, and so on and so on. Few things are the first instances of encroachment, it simply is another step...another step...another step.
    I can agree with this.

    However, some steps are broader. Stopping the courts from getting involved was a big one, and that happened under Bush. Obama has certainly continued the program, but I am not sure he's done anything differently than staus quo.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Sen. Paul Statement on National Security Agency Surveillance Rand Paul | United States Senator

    Jun 6, 2013

    WASHINGTON, D.C. - Sen. Rand Paul today released the following statement in response to news of the NSA extensive seizure and surveillance of Americans' Verizon phone records.


    The National Security Agency's seizure and surveillance of virtually all of Verizon's phone customers is an astounding assault on the Constitution. After revelations that the Internal Revenue Service targeted political dissidents and the Department of Justice seized reporters' phone records, it would appear that this Administration has now sunk to a new low.

    When Sen. Mike Lee and I offered an amendment that would attach Fourth Amendment protections to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act last year, it was defeated, and FISA was passed by an overwhelming majority of the Senate. At the time, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid remarked that FISA was "necessary to protect us from the evil in this world."

    The Bill of Rights was designed to protect us from evil, too, particularly that which always correlates with concentrated government power, and particularly Executive power. If the President and Congress would obey the Fourth Amendment we all swore to uphold, this new shocking revelation that the government is now spying on citizens' phone data en masse would never have happened.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    I would hope at some point we who lean right and left which have a problem with this could put our partisanship aside and band together against things like this. Unfortunately, there's too much knee-jerk to criticisms of Bush and Obama. Both are in the wrong here, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing someone you may ideology agree with most of the time when they do something you clearly find wrong.
    Yeah, I don't understand some people's reactions here. This is unacceptable under Obama just as it was unacceptable under Bush. It's really not that complicated.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Shocking that would be!!!
    May not be so shocking when they learn that the call records for their extra-marital trysts are now in O's possession.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    If anyone wants these NSA phone records, just write to the Chinese govt. and they will give it to you.

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    Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

    The White House wont even confirm they they are doing this, even though congress already has. Why is this spying secret? The terrorists know that we do this. But americans arent allowed to know when they govt wants to spy on us?

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