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Thread: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    it is a fraud, have the original stock holders been paid back?
    Its not a fraud, GM was bankrupt... the stockholders get nothing in a bankruptcy. That is the way it works.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I agree, trucks are the only thing keeping them above water now
    You make that statement based upon what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Allot of GM bond owners got burned by Obama. People that invested in GM, that helped them grow and in the end the Union, who caused their bankruptcy wound up getting the spoils.

    I still say GM's heading for the inevitable bankruptcy. Obama's free money just pushed the inevitable down the road a bit.
    Yet another argument made on hearsay and impression rather than fact. GM had a $10.6B positive cash flow from operations in 2012 on net income of $6B, with $26B of cash and cash equivalents in the bank and improving working capital. 16 of 20 analysts (professionals that follow the company and are privy to certain type of inside information) rate the Company as a buy or strong buy. Once again, you are vacant of fact, so please enlighten us: why is GM headed for bankruptcy? What do you know that 16 of 20 analysts do not?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GM&ql=1
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-06-13 at 02:04 AM.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    All the credit markets were closed at the time, it was Uncle Sam or nothing. Today there is approximately 1 million people working because of the bailout of GM and Chrysler. The citizens of Ohio showed their appreciation to President Obama by voting for him. Oh and all those workers are paying their share of FIT.
    Those 1 million people would just be working for other auto companies because supply would still have to meet demand. We can understand why the people of Ohio voted for Obama and it's because they were bribed. There is no other way to put it.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Its not a fraud, GM was bankrupt... the stockholders get nothing in a bankruptcy. That is the way it works.
    Bankruptcy means you fail, close your doors, that is not what happened. Execs go their money, the ****ing union got their money and the stock holders got nothing.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You make that statement based upon what?



    Yet another argument made on hearsay and impression rather than fact. GM had a $10.6B positive cash flow from operations in 2012 on net income of $6B, with $26B of cash and cash equivalents in the bank and improving working capital. 16 of 20 analysts (professionals that follow the company and are privy to certain type of inside information) rate the Company as a buy or strong buy. Once again, you are vacant of fact, so please enlighten us: why is GM headed for bankruptcy? What do you know that 16 of 20 analysts do not?

    GM: Summary for General Motors Company Common S- Yahoo! Finance
    It is truck sales baby, most people familiar with the domestic car markets know this.

    GM’s trucks sales were up 15 percent versus a year ago, including a 23 percent increase for large pickups and a 30 percent increase for large SUVs.

    http://www.gm.com/content/gmcom/home...roduction.html

    Booming truck sales help GM recoup market share
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-04/american-pickup-sales-leading-best-sales-year-since-07.html

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You make that statement based upon what?



    Yet another argument made on hearsay and impression rather than fact. GM had a $10.6B positive cash flow from operations in 2012 on net income of $6B, with $26B of cash and cash equivalents in the bank and improving working capital. 16 of 20 analysts (professionals that follow the company and are privy to certain type of inside information) rate the Company as a buy or strong buy. Once again, you are vacant of fact, so please enlighten us: why is GM headed for bankruptcy? What do you know that 16 of 20 analysts do not?

    GM: Summary for General Motors Company Common S- Yahoo! Finance

    Interesting.

    According to GM's own 1st quarter report, free cash flow was a negative $1.3 billion, their underfunded U.S. and non U.S. pension status increased to @ @$26 billion, and their global market share continued to decrease.

    Earnings Releases - Quarterly Reports & Financial Releases | GM.com

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Let's not forget that, besides sticking it to private investors, GM paid back the government with government money. They still aren't making money, they still don't have any signs of recovering. Dead man walking.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Bankruptcy means you fail, close your doors, that is not what happened. Execs go their money, the ****ing union got their money and the stock holders got nothing.
    That is not what bankruptcy means. A Chapter 7 liquidation would be that; but this was a Chapter XI re-organization under bankruptcy.

    In a Chapter XI, the shareholders usually lose all of their money; the creditors usually get $.xx/$1.00 and the bond holders, depending on security and seniority usually get their principal, but under different terms. In a chapter XI, the execs and employees usually get paid (those that do not lose their jobs, as a high percent do), but obligations to those employees (pensions, etc.) also get renegotiated and paid $.xx/$1.00 and all employee and executive options became worthless. This is exactly what happened.

    No one was made whole except bond speculators that guessed right. The premise of a Chapter XI is that the long-term benefit for most of the constituencies is better than a liquidation. Most Chapter XIs do not work; this one worked beautifully.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    GM stock must reach $53 a share for the government to recoup its money.

    it has been selling stock well under $53

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    That is not what bankruptcy means. A Chapter 7 liquidation would be that; but this was a Chapter XI re-organization under bankruptcy.

    In a Chapter XI, the shareholders usually lose all of their money; the creditors usually get $.xx/$1.00 and the bond holders, depending on security and seniority usually get their principal, but under different terms. In a chapter XI, the execs and employees usually get paid (those that do not lose their jobs, as a high percent do), but obligations to those employees (pensions, etc.) also get renegotiated and paid $.xx/$1.00 and all employee and executive options became worthless. This is exactly what happened.

    No one was made whole except bond speculators that guessed right. The premise of a Chapter XI is that the long-term benefit for most of the constituencies is better than a liquidation. Most Chapter XIs do not work; this one worked beautifully.
    First lien bind holders were shafted. Being a first lien bondholder means you get first proceeds in a liquidation or are the first repaid in a reorganization. When you invest in this kind of instrument it has low yields, low dividends but your money is safe....until Obama stepped in and upended 200 years of contract and bankruptcy law.

    Whats interesting is some of the investors were firemans' unions, teachers' unions and the like. Such greedy investors.

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