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Thread: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

  1. #121
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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't blame the unions. I blame management that agreed to their demands.

    I agree about the bailout, though...reluctantly. Our recession would have been much worse had we not had that bailout. There's just no question about it. No sense cutting off noses.
    Putting aside any inane partisan debate of the issue, not sure why you are so sure what the outcome would have been without the bailout. I can't know for sure, but do think that the company could have survived under a structured bankruptcy just like companies in the airline industry have.

    To think that all of that manufacturing capacity would have gone unused throughout the world, including a valuable franchise in China and an important franchise in the U.S. and Europe, I just find hard to believe. What the deal would have looked like, no idea. People like to call this the greatest recession since the great depression. It was a very deep and very short recession, fueled largely by a) the bursting of a housing bubble and b) a panic run on financial institutions, which led to corporations not being able lend thus cutting manufacturing and inventory reductions as CFOs pulled in their horns. Car sales naturally fell off a cliff, so GM was in a tight squeeze due to lousy management. Their assets and brands always had value.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What would you want the private sector to do? The private sector was already in the auto business and there was no crisis as far as the lack of vehicles went.
    Several people on this thread are claiming that the Big Three could have been saved by a normal private bankruptcy. It's a fantasy. If GM and Chrysler failed, all three would have ended up liquidating, tons of jobs would have been lost.


    It doesn't matter. What good is a company that has to be bailed out every 30 years?
    I guess you don't have any interest in commercial airlines, then. They frequently get bailed out. The only way they could survive would be to reduce flights, slash everything to the bone and significantly increase prices. And even that might not be enough.

    S&L's also had to get bailed out, when those *cough* private sector banks mismanaged their funds and went belly up.


    Now America wants to emulate Japan and Chine while they want to emulate America?
    No, I'm pointing out that Japan and China do not let companies rise and fall on their own merits. They not only survive with massive government support, they actually thrive off of it.


    Why should the taxpayer be responsible for ailing out auto companies when their is no reason to do so? It's the consumer and taxpayers who should be considered, not big business.
    Because the entire US economy would suffer if the Big Three went under and their employees were unemployed.


    That's obviously untrue.
    Seems screamingly obvious to me. A lot of Republicans are biased against Obama, and were before he even took office.


    Obama is dishonest and clueless....
    See what I mean?

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Several people on this thread are claiming that the Big Three could have been saved by a normal private bankruptcy. It's a fantasy. If GM and Chrysler failed, all three would have ended up liquidating, tons of jobs would have been lost.


    :
    Everything has a price. To say the assets had zero value is silly. Same assets that are now being included in the S&P 500.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Putting aside any inane partisan debate of the issue, not sure why you are so sure what the outcome would have been without the bailout.
    Try reading this. It might fill you in a bit. What if Taxpayers Hadn't Bailed Out GM and Chrysler?

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Everything has a price. To say the assets had zero value is silly. Same assets that are now being included in the S&P 500.
    It's not that they had "zero value."

    It's that during a reorganization, companies still need funding and huge amounts of credit just to keep going and to pay their suppliers. Since the private sector was unwilling and/or unable to provide that funding, the companies would have needed to liquidate just to keep the bankruptcy going. This in turn would have sunk their suppliers, who wouldn't get paid. Those suppliers also make parts for Ford. There would have been a cascade effect on the entire industry.

    And yes, brands with international recognition, long histories and profitable pasts certainly can fail, brands lost or turned into shadows of their pasts. Pan Am, Lehman Brothers, Woolworth's, Polaroid, Kodak....

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    It's not that they had "zero value."

    It's that during a reorganization, companies still need funding and huge amounts of credit just to keep going and to pay their suppliers. Since the private sector was unwilling and/or unable to provide that funding, the companies would have needed to liquidate just to keep the bankruptcy going. This in turn would have sunk their suppliers, who wouldn't get paid. Those suppliers also make parts for Ford. There would have been a cascade effect on the entire industry.

    And yes, brands with international recognition, long histories and profitable pasts certainly can fail, brands lost or turned into shadows of their pasts. Pan Am, Lehman Brothers, Woolworth's, Polaroid, Kodak....
    We'll never know for sure since the government took it into bankruptcy court with its own prepackaged deal...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Without the help, first from President Bush, then President Obama GM would likely be gone now.

    General Motors is rejoining the club, the rarified air of the Standard & Poor's 500.

    It's a dose of good news not only for GM's comeback story, but for stockholders who have seen a modest stock price bump from the milestone.

    Standard & Poor's announced that GM, which reigned as the biggest company in the index from 1927 to 1958, will be back in after the close of trading on Thursday. The news is sure to buoy the mood at GM's stockholders' meeting the same day. And it will mark another milestone since GM filed for bankruptcy reorganization in 2009 and, as a result, was kicked out of the S&P 500 slot it had held since the index began in 1925.

    The Detroit-based global automaker will rejoin at 130 among the 500 companies on the list ranked by the value of their shares available for trading, or float. It replaces Heinz, which is out because of its acquisition by Berkshire Hathaway. Financial services provider American International Group, which, like GM, received government assistance to stay in business during the recession, also will rejoin.

    MORE: Treasury to sell 30 million shares of GM stock

    GM shares closed at $34.96 Tuesday, up 1.6%. In the past year, it has ranged from $18.72 to $35.48.

    "The GM team has been working very hard to earn the business of customers around the world and to win the confidence of investors, and rejoining the S&P 500 shows we're very much on track," said GM CEO Dan Akerson in a statement.

    GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500
    I still won't be buying one of their cars anytime soon.

    When I bought my Lexus, I looked at a comparable Cadillac. It was smaller and cost $8,000 more, if I remember correctly. It also didn't have the same interior richness the Lexus had. I asked the salesman why there'd be such a difference in price between the two cars, and he said, "We have to protect the brand."

    Really. Wonder how that's workin' out for them. I'll take my Lexus any day.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I still won't be buying one of their cars anytime soon.

    When I bought my Lexus, I looked at a comparable Cadillac. It was smaller and cost $8,000 more, if I remember correctly. It also didn't have the same interior richness the Lexus had. I asked the salesman why there'd be such a difference in price between the two cars, and he said, "We have to protect the brand."

    Really. Wonder how that's workin' out for them. I'll take my Lexus any day.
    Good evening, Maggie.

    Today I saw my first Cadillac Escalade, and it sure was a nice looking vehicle! I still like the Corvette better!

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    GM and Chrysler were not going to emerge from bankruptcy. They would have been liquidated, because no one in the private sector had any interest in saving those companies. As noted, they were trying for years to arrange a rescue, and the private sector offered no help whatsoever.

    The unions had already made significant recessions. And contrary to your claims, GM and Chrysler are apparently bouncing back, and hiring people, both union and non-union.
    Nope, there would have been plenty of interest in investing in GM after bankruptcy. There would be a big difference between GM before bankruptcy with the UAW and all the other baggage and GM after bankruptcy shorn of all that baggage.

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    Re: GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Markets correct themselves, governments distort them.
    Quoted for truth.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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