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Thread: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

  1. #181
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    It also tells the government everything about your biological makeup....
    No, it doesn't. Not even close. Nor are they going to check a suspect's DNA for genetic predispositions for breast cancer.


    The State's job is to prove guilt, not innocence. Proving innocence is your job if you're arrested.
    The state is empowered to collect evidence, including unique identifiers like fingerprints. They can also legally use fingerprints to link you to other crimes.


    "Anything you say and do can be used against you." There is no law requiring police to work for your benefit.
    True, but not relevant. If you leave fingerprints on a murder weapon, you are not incriminating yourself when the police take your fingerprints.


    Lawyers should be able to fight against the obtaining of DNA just like anything else. It's part of the defense process.
    Apparently, not anymore. And again, in most cases the police have many legal methods to obtain your DNA.


    If you want a suspect's DNA, get a subpoena or warrant. Their DNA is their personal property.
    Not if it gets thrown in the trash. Anything you abandon becomes precisely that -- abandoned. As a court held in 2007: "No recognized privacy interest exists in voluntarily discarded saliva."


    Yes it does... it protects people's 4th Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure of their personal property.
    I'm not seeing this as "unreasonable search or seizure." If anything, it's all but routine now.

    In fact, I'm seeing benefits to it. If the DNA doesn't match, the suspect is much more likely to be freed or cleared, in a much faster time frame, than under other circumstances -- such as being brow-beaten by a bunch of cops during an interrogation, and coughing up a false confession, only to have it overturned after 10 years in jail and multiple court proceedings.


    It's easy to accuse anyone of a felony in this day and age. There are so many laws on the books.
    It's not that easy, which is why it doesn't happen that often. E.g. a whopping 0.15% of Americans were arrested for violent crimes in 2009.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i agree. i should point out, though, that this is for "serious" crimes, not traffic stops. either way, thanks for pointing out the fifth amendment issue; that one didn't occur to me.
    What do they consider a serious crime? Kind of open ended I would think. I don't trust the government to get it right. Too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    No, it doesn't. Not even close. Nor are they going to check a suspect's DNA for genetic predispositions for breast cancer.
    I disagree. They can possibly use your DNA for many different things. Like I said I don't care as they already have mine. If they were to qualify what they mean by "serious crime" I would be more open to the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Apparently, not anymore. And again, in most cases the police have many legal methods to obtain your DNA.
    Then why do they have to do an end run around getting a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I'm not seeing this as "unreasonable search or seizure." If anything, it's all but routine now.
    It sets a bad precedent in my humble opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    In fact, I'm seeing benefits to it. If the DNA doesn't match, the suspect is much more likely to be freed or cleared, in a much faster time frame, than under other circumstances -- such as being brow-beaten by a bunch of cops during an interrogation, and coughing up a false confession, only to have it overturned after 10 years in jail and multiple court proceedings.
    This is pure fantasy. This is like TV cop stuff. It will not and does not work that way in the real world at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    It's not that easy, which is why it doesn't happen that often. E.g. a whopping 0.15% of Americans were arrested for violent crimes in 2009.
    That's 4,500,000 people. How many of them were black and Hispanic?
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-04-13 at 06:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    What do they consider a serious crime? Kind of open ended I would think. I don't trust the government to get it right. Too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak.
    It's one of those issues where incrementalism really is a factor.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Really? You think it's easy to remove those hospital wrist bands while the infants are all kept is a nursery visible to many people?
    The only thing the fingerprints are used for when they take them from newborns is that put in the fingerprint database. That is it and that is one reason why there is something wrong with it. It also exactly what is going to happen with DNA in the future to. All of sudden some random ass excuse will be made up about how the hospital has to take your kids DNA. I imagine it will deal with some sort of disease preventative crap.

    If that is not the worst kind of deception out there I really don't know what is.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    I disagree. They can possibly use your DNA for many different things.
    The consequences seem pretty clear by now. They're going to use DNA to verify identities, solve cold cases and as evidence in current cases. They're not going to use it to test your paternity, or report possible medical conditions to your employer.


    If they were to qualify what they mean by "serious crime" I would be more open to the idea.
    For Maryland, it's violent crimes and burglaries.


    Then why do they have to do an end run around getting a warrant?
    DNA collection has, and still is, managed by statutes. Maryland expanded DNA collection to include arrests for serious crimes in 2009, and the case has been working its way through the courts since then.


    This is pure fantasy. This is like TV cop stuff. It will not and does not work that way in the real world at all.
    No, it's legal reality.

    300 people to date have been exonerated because of DNA evidence. 18 were on death row. (DNA evidence proves innocence of 300th prisoner nationwide - Los Angeles Times).


    That's 4,500,000 people. How many of them were black and Hispanic?
    It's 450,000. I believe about half are black or Hispanic, could be more.

    There is no doubt that's a lot of people. But it is a tiny percentage of the populace as a whole.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The only thing the fingerprints are used for when they take them from newborns is that put in the fingerprint database. That is it and that is one reason why there is something wrong with it. It also exactly what is going to happen with DNA in the future to. All of sudden some random ass excuse will be made up about how the hospital has to take your kids DNA. I imagine it will deal with some sort of disease preventative crap.

    If that is not the worst kind of deception out there I really don't know what is.
    And many parents are ok with that given the number of child abductions. If the parents are ok with it, and I was, then I don't see a problem. They offer fingerprinting at elementary schools here for the same reason.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    And many parents are ok with that given the number of child abductions. If the parents are ok with it, and I was, then I don't see a problem. They offer fingerprinting at elementary schools here for the same reason.
    Whether intentional or unintentional, I often wonder whether those child abduction fingerprint events actually serve to stir up hysteria and paranoia more so than offer any real help. Child abductions outside of family disputes, while they do happen, are actually pretty rare.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    not sure i support this one; there's a lot more info to be gleaned from DNA. thoughts on this decision?
    How can you?

    These SCOTUS idiots are idiots - they have no precedence or even basis to make this OPINIONATED ruling.

    Their job isn't to rule on opinion - it's to rule on law.

    The Fourth Amendment is quite clear, but those progressive punks don't care.

    This is tyranny at it's finest considering the Fourth Amendment has been basically circumvented - which will only without question be used as precedent to completely destroy the Fourth Amendment, of course that will lead to precedent to destroy other amendments.... If you can kill one amendment with one stone then you can kill two with 2 stones.

    IMO the Bill of Rights and the constitution in general is being held hostage by a bunch of radicals with partisan ideas.... Obama wants that tho - destruction of civil liberties.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    How can you?

    These SCOTUS idiots are idiots - they have no precedence or even basis to make this OPINIONATED ruling.

    Their job isn't to rule on opinion - it's to rule on law.

    The Fourth Amendment is quite clear, but those progressive punks don't care.

    This is tyranny at it's finest considering the Fourth Amendment has been basically circumvented - which will only without question be used as precedent to completely destroy the Fourth Amendment, of course that will lead to precedent to destroy other amendments.... If you can kill one amendment with one stone then you can kill two with 2 stones.

    IMO the Bill of Rights and the constitution in general is being held hostage by a bunch of radicals with partisan ideas.... Obama wants that tho - destruction of civil liberties.
    I know you didn't intend it to be so, but this post was actually funny. You pulled out almost all the libertarian doom-and-gloom buzzwords.



    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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