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Thread: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

  1. #171
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    For those against the idea of collecting and storing DNA upon arrest... and I'm not necessarily against you... how do you feel about collecting and storing upon conviction?

    Does arrest vs conviction make a difference?
    I would say for violent criminals, yes... because it would provide a means for determining their involvement in any potential future cases. For petty crime? Probably not. We don't need people's DNA to solve petty crime.

    Convicted criminals become wards of the state, but they still have rights. I don't think carte-blache DNA collection of all criminals is justifiable. The U.S. has a bloated justice system right now, with so many laws on the books, and the highest number of prisoners per capita. Conviction in of itself should not mean automatic DNA collection, unless authorities can prove that the DNA could help the justice process in the future.

    My point in my previous posts is that we should assume the government is going to abuse power, because that's what governments do in their nature. Our Founding Fathers knew it, which is why the Bill of Rights is worded like it is. We have to err on the side of the rights and liberties of the individual, always.

    The government shouldn't get "automatic" right to do anything. It should have to prove itself at every stage, and not prove itself to itself, but prove itself to the People.

    What SCOTUS ruled was statist, plain and simple. It eliminated one more piece of discernment from the system. It has said that DNA collection is justifiable in all cases, without review. That is dangerous.

  2. #172
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm a goddamn asshole when it comes to that issue.
    Well then it's a good thing they cut it from the opposite side
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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  3. #173
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is a guidance issue, not a body sovereignty/privacy issue.
    "Guidance" sounds too much like a warn and fuzzy euphemism when the kid is forced to go to school against their will.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #174
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    That is absolute crap. Being arrested is not a conviction. You could be arrested for a traffic violation and they can take your DNA??? Screw that.

    Also DNA can be used to convict you of a crime. They should need a warrant or probable cause. It's like taking away your right not to self incriminate.
    i agree. i should point out, though, that this is for "serious" crimes, not traffic stops. either way, thanks for pointing out the fifth amendment issue; that one didn't occur to me.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    not sure i support this one; there's a lot more info to be gleaned from DNA. thoughts on this decision?
    I would say the court is overstepping its bounds.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I would say for violent criminals, yes... because it would provide a means for determining their involvement in any potential future cases. For petty crime? Probably not. We don't need people's DNA to solve petty crime.

    Convicted criminals become wards of the state, but they still have rights. I don't think carte-blache DNA collection of all criminals is justifiable. The U.S. has a bloated justice system right now, with so many laws on the books, and the highest number of prisoners per capita. Conviction in of itself should not mean automatic DNA collection, unless authorities can prove that the DNA could help the justice process in the future.

    My point in my previous posts is that we should assume the government is going to abuse power, because that's what governments do in their nature. Our Founding Fathers knew it, which is why the Bill of Rights is worded like it is. We have to err on the side of the rights and liberties of the individual, always.

    The government shouldn't get "automatic" right to do anything. It should have to prove itself at every stage, and not prove itself to itself, but prove itself to the People.

    What SCOTUS ruled was statist, plain and simple. It eliminated one more piece of discernment from the system. It has said that DNA collection is justifiable in all cases, without review. That is dangerous.
    Good answer.

    I'll add that stored DNA info has led to solving past unsolved cases as well. Plus, it has been helpful in exonerating the wrongfully convicted, which is a huge pet issue of mine.

    Totally agree with your point about assuming government will abuse power. It's simple human nature, and is the primary reason I lean against the proposal.
    Last edited by radcen; 06-04-13 at 05:44 PM.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #177
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i agree. i should point out, though, that this is for "serious" crimes, not traffic stops. either way, thanks for pointing out the fifth amendment issue; that one didn't occur to me.
    It does say that, yes, but as I understand it "serious" is kind of vague and set up to be a moving target. As a committed slippery slope theorist I fear the continual weakening of what the bar will be for 'serious'.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Well then it's a good thing they cut it from the opposite side
    Lol, but the point remains. To assume I care about finger prints and not male circumcision is wrong.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    "Guidance" sounds too much like a warn and fuzzy euphemism when the kid is forced to go to school against their will.
    The liberty of children is restricted in cases of guidance from their parents. Be that what they eat, how they dress, if they go to school, etc. That does not mean or imply that the parents can do whatever they want in the name of guidance.

  10. #180
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    You are just funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Really? You think it's easy to remove those hospital wrist bands while the infants are all kept is a nursery visible to many people?
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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