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Thread: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

  1. #131
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I know that sequencing a person's entire DNA, and then running two dozen tests on it, is:
    • expensive
    • time-consuming
    • nowhere near as informative as most people presume
    • takes up tons of storage space
    • isn't what law enforcement needs or uses
    • has no functionality whatsoever

    Conflating fake fears of things that won't happen is not a persuasive rhetorical maneuver.
    Perhaps now, such DNA testing may be as you suggest - who's to say it will always be that way? And since this now appears to be a constitutional right for law enforcement, is it necessarily a fake fear if all those impediments you threw up are irrelevant 10, 15, 20 years from now?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    If you're arrested for a serious felony, yes. That is what has changed.
    What difference does that make? They are still taking it against your will on arrest and it's still part of your body.

    Requiring a warrant before collecting DNA doesn't have any effect on this at all.

    And any defense attorney has the power to question the credibility of DNA evidence in court.
    Questioning something that is pretty legal for the police to do has no effect.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Perhaps now, such DNA testing may be as you suggest - who's to say it will always be that way?
    Basic awareness of medicine, for starters. You can't detect viruses, infections or communicable diseases with a DNA test.

    Basic logic is up next. Law enforcement has absolutely no need to test for genetic predispositions for BRCA.

    Basic logic continues with the fact that if they arrest and DNA test enough of the population for this to be misused by other branches of government, we're already in a police state, and a pesky thing like the 4th Amendment won't stop them.


    And since this now appears to be a constitutional right for law enforcement, is it necessarily a fake fear if all those impediments you threw up are irrelevant 10, 15, 20 years from now?
    Yes.

    The question is whether this qualifies as an "unreasonable search and seizure." Hyping things that won't happen does not clarify that issue.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What difference does that make? They are still taking it against your will on arrest and it's still part of your body.
    It's not an invasive procedure like a blood test. It's like fingerprints, but more effective.


    Questioning something that is pretty legal for the police to do has no effect.
    Incorrect. There are plenty of potential grounds for a defense attorney to pursue, ranging from efficacy of the test, quality of the lab, whether protocols were in fact followed, and if a legitimate reason can explain the presence of the DNA.

    In addition, there are plenty of opportunities for police to get a warrant for a DNA test, or to legally obtain the suspect's DNA (e.g. going through the suspect's trash). All this ruling does is lower the bar a small amount.

    And considering that DNA can exonerate as well as provide evidence, and is far more precise than fingerprints, I'm not seeing this ruling as a bad thing.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is a violation of 4th amendment and 5th amendment rights.Swabbing for DNA is a search and it is basically forcing someone to testify against themselves. An arrest doesn't equal guilt.You are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a criminal court of law.Innocent people should not have their constitutional rights violated without a warrant.
    It's a fair point, I'm just not sold. Why is it okay to have a fingerprint database? You fingerprint people for crime A, and then search it from crime B. It's kind of unreasonable to require the government to suspect someone before they compare their fingerprints from a list. It's also kind of unamerican to have a list that's only people who have been accused, not people who have been convicted.

    I like Maggies idea. Take a DNA swab at birth and put it on file. People are going to be much less likely to commit a crime if they know that they'll be caught if they leave so much as a hair behind.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    It's not an invasive procedure like a blood test. It's like fingerprints, but more effective.
    Invasive or not the government has no right to take something from my body against my will.

    Incorrect. There are plenty of potential grounds for a defense attorney to pursue, ranging from efficacy of the test, quality of the lab, whether protocols were in fact followed, and if a legitimate reason can explain the presence of the DNA.
    Not exactly the best defense 90% of the time.

    In addition, there are plenty of opportunities for police to get a warrant for a DNA test, or to legally obtain the suspect's DNA (e.g. going through the suspect's trash). All this ruling does is lower the bar a small amount.
    Again, I already said I don't agree with the trash nonsense, but I see no reason why they would ever use a warrant from now on. Just do whatever the hell you want and take it.

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I have no problem with it. I think people's DNA should be taken at birth.
    We are irreconcilably opposed. The government has no business taking DNA without consent or warrant. I am even more opposed to DNA being taken at birth by government entities. Mind you I have MY DNA on file with the DOD and DOS. They have it with my express consent.
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I like Maggies idea. Take a DNA swab at birth and put it on file. People are going to be much less likely to commit a crime if they know that they'll be caught if they leave so much as a hair behind.
    A lot of place take a newborns foot prints and finger prints right at the hospital. It won't be long before everyones prints will be on file.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    It's a fair point, I'm just not sold. Why is it okay to have a fingerprint database? You fingerprint people for crime A, and then search it from crime B. It's kind of unreasonable to require the government to suspect someone before they compare their fingerprints from a list. It's also kind of unamerican to have a list that's only people who have been accused, not people who have been convicted.

    I like Maggies idea. Take a DNA swab at birth and put it on file. People are going to be much less likely to commit a crime if they know that they'll be caught if they leave so much as a hair behind.
    I do not think there should be a database period.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    A lot of place take a newborns foot prints and finger prints right at the hospital. It won't be long before everyones prints will be on file.
    That's horrible. Can't even keep your property for a day. Shame.

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