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Thread: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times [W:243]

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    "Indeed, of the 157 events Shulman was cleared to attend, White House records only provide time of arrival information -- confirming that he actually went to them -- for 11 events over the 2009-2012 period, and time of departure information for only six appointments. According to the White House records, Shulman signed in twice in 2009, five times in 2010, twice in 2011, and twice in 2012. That does not mean that he did not go to other meetings, only that the White House records do not show he went to the 157 meetings he was granted Secret Service clearance to attend."
    i want to take a look at the White House Visitor Records from the official WH site and discovered some interesting facts.
    only about 20% had a TOA (time of arrival) beside their name and about 40% of those never had a TOD (time of departure)

    White House Visitor Records | The White House


    So according to your little article only 1 out of 5 attended meetings they was scheduled to attend and 40% of those never left after the meeting

    i would not trust the accuracy of that list

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    This many meetings makes me worry about how complicated Obamacare is going to be.

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Thank you Jack for the like, however, I found the following testimony from the oversight hearing:

    CONNOLLY: There might be many reasons you would be at the White House. What would be some of the reasons you might be at the White House?

    SHULMAN: The Easter egg roll with my kids.

    CONNOLLY: Well...

    SHULMAN: Questions about the administrability of tax policy.

    CONNOLLY: All right.

    SHULMAN: They were thinking of our budget -- us helping the Department of Education streamline application processes for financial aid...

    CONNOLLY: I just want to be clear. You're very aware of the fact that you're under oath today?

    SHULMAN: Yeah, very aware of that.

    CONNOLLY: And your testimony, to be very clear, in response to Mr. Jordan's question, is that you've -- you've never had any conversation with respect to this subject, the subject of this hearing, with anybody at the White House, though you were at the White House 118 times? Now, that -

    SHULMAN: Yeah, I mean, just so I'm -- just so I'm clear, I have no memory. Wouldn't have been appropriate. Would not have been appropriate to have a conversation with the White -- with anyone at the White House about the subject of discriminating against conservative groups in any part of our operation.
    Yeah Pete, you'll excuse me if I don't fall for Media Matters word on the subject. They have a documented track record of not only taking their opponents out of context, but outright making **** up in defense of liberal/progressive agendas, and people.

    However, if the truth is on Shulman's side, why the evasive stance in testimony? Why are lib/progressives trying everything under the sun to deflect the basic point from trying to say that Shulman is a Bush appointee, and therefore makes him somehow a republican when he gave money to the DNC, to harping that nothing illegal was done....It stinks.

    Too many people obfuscating for there not to be any "there, there."
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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    He was under oath during his testimony.
    Very true... He was under oath, so it was important for him to choose his words wisely.

    What I found interesting was his answer to the question:

    CONNOLLY: And your testimony, to be very clear, in response to Mr. Jordan's question, is that you've -- you've never had any conversation with respect to this subject, the subject of this hearing, with anybody at the White House, though you were at the White House 118 times? Now, that -


    SHULMAN: Yeah, I mean, just so I'm -- just so I'm clear, I have no memory. Wouldn't have been appropriate. Would not have been appropriate to have a conversation with the White -- with anyone at the White House about the subject of discriminating against conservative groups in any part of our operation.


    If he never had any such conversation with anyone at the White House as he implies, why didn't he simply answer "No sir, I didn't"? Him instead saying such a conversation "Wouldn't have been appropriate" is not a denial, but gives the impression it is... Therefore, if it is discovered he did have such a conversation, he can't be charged with lying to congress.

    His testimony tells me that he did have such conversations on the subject with members of the Administration, otherwise his answers would have been more direct and forthcoming.

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Very true... He was under oath, so it was important for him to choose his words wisely.

    What I found interesting was his answer to the question:

    CONNOLLY: And your testimony, to be very clear, in response to Mr. Jordan's question, is that you've -- you've never had any conversation with respect to this subject, the subject of this hearing, with anybody at the White House, though you were at the White House 118 times? Now, that -


    SHULMAN: Yeah, I mean, just so I'm -- just so I'm clear, I have no memory. Wouldn't have been appropriate. Would not have been appropriate to have a conversation with the White -- with anyone at the White House about the subject of discriminating against conservative groups in any part of our operation.


    If he never had any such conversation with anyone at the White House as he implies, why didn't he simply answer "No sir, I didn't"? Him instead saying such a conversation "Wouldn't have been appropriate" is not a denial, but gives the impression it is... Therefore, if it is discovered he did have such a conversation, he can't be charged with lying to congress.

    His testimony tells me that he did have such conversations on the subject with members of the Administration, otherwise his answers would have been more direct and forthcoming.

    Absolutely....We are confronted with an administration that plays semantics in everything they utter.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah Pete, you'll excuse me if I don't fall for Media Matters word on the subject. They have a documented track record of not only taking their opponents out of context, but outright making **** up in defense of liberal/progressive agendas, and people.

    However, if the truth is on Shulman's side, why the evasive stance in testimony? Why are lib/progressives trying everything under the sun to deflect the basic point from trying to say that Shulman is a Bush appointee, and therefore makes him somehow a republican when he gave money to the DNC, to harping that nothing illegal was done....It stinks.

    Too many people obfuscating for there not to be any "there, there."
    Reading your other posts on this subject, I am assuming you think he was being evasive when he mentioned the Easter Egg Roll. What I have learned is the "White House" is actually a complex of three buildings: Eisenhower Executive Office, New Executive Office Building and the actual White House. The list the DC used covers all three. So when he was asked about when he was at the White House, he was talking about the actual White House, so its very possible his answer wasn't being evasive at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Very true... He was under oath, so it was important for him to choose his words wisely.

    What I found interesting was his answer to the question:

    CONNOLLY: And your testimony, to be very clear, in response to Mr. Jordan's question, is that you've -- you've never had any conversation with respect to this subject, the subject of this hearing, with anybody at the White House, though you were at the White House 118 times? Now, that -


    SHULMAN: Yeah, I mean, just so I'm -- just so I'm clear, I have no memory. Wouldn't have been appropriate. Would not have been appropriate to have a conversation with the White -- with anyone at the White House about the subject of discriminating against conservative groups in any part of our operation.


    If he never had any such conversation with anyone at the White House as he implies, why didn't he simply answer "No sir, I didn't"? Him instead saying such a conversation "Wouldn't have been appropriate" is not a denial, but gives the impression it is... Therefore, if it is discovered he did have such a conversation, he can't be charged with lying to congress.

    His testimony tells me that he did have such conversations on the subject with members of the Administration, otherwise his answers would have been more direct and forthcoming.
    You have a suspicious mind. I've said elsewhere that Rep. Issa should call him back to clear up any loose ends. I believe we need to know the truth. Here is a link by a liberal that takes the DC story to task, her analysis maintains he went to the complex 11 times between 2009 and 2012.

    The Fake Story About the IRS Commissioner and the White House - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic

    The latest twist in the conservative effort to tie the IRS tax-exempt targeting scandal to the president is to focus on public visitor records released by the White House, in which former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman's name appears 157 times between 2009 and 2012. Unfortunately, few of those pushing this line have bothered to read more than the topline of that public information. Bill O'Reilly on Thursday called them the "smoking gun" and demanded of Shulman, "You must explain under oath what you were doing at the White House on 157 separate occasions." His statement built on a Daily Caller story, "IRS's Shulman had more public White House visits than any Cabinet member." An Investors Business Daily story and slew of blog items repeated the charges.
    snip


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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The system is surprisingly casual. I'm confident he went all 157 times, or something close to that.
    How confident are you about the 157? Here is a link to the database The Daily Caller used fort their report:

    White House Visitor Log - The Washington Post

    Follow the link and read the comment.


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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Someone please explain to me how the is evidence of anything.
    It's not really, but c'mon, put Bush and his administration under the same scenario, and you would see how Obama and his IRS Commisioner could lose credibillity.

    "If it walks like a duck ...."

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    How confident are you about the 157? Here is a link to the database The Daily
    Caller used fort their report:

    White House Visitor Log - The Washington Post

    Follow the link and read the comment.
    Why wouldn't Sculman just testify to those numbers then ?

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    Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Reading your other posts on this subject, I am assuming you think he was being evasive when he mentioned the Easter Egg Roll. What I have learned is the "White House" is actually a complex of three buildings: Eisenhower Executive Office, New Executive Office Building and the actual White House. The list the DC used covers all three. So when he was asked about when he was at the White House, he was talking about the actual White House, so its very possible his answer wasn't being evasive at all.



    You have a suspicious mind. I've said elsewhere that Rep. Issa should call him back to clear up any loose ends. I believe we need to know the truth. Here is a link by a liberal that takes the DC story to task, her analysis maintains he went to the complex 11 times between 2009 and 2012.

    The Fake Story About the IRS Commissioner and the White House - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic

    The latest twist in the conservative effort to tie the IRS tax-exempt targeting scandal to the president is to focus on public visitor records released by the White House, in which former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman's name appears 157 times between 2009 and 2012. Unfortunately, few of those pushing this line have bothered to read more than the topline of that public information. Bill O'Reilly on Thursday called them the "smoking gun" and demanded of Shulman, "You must explain under oath what you were doing at the White House on 157 separate occasions." His statement built on a Daily Caller story, "IRS's Shulman had more public White House visits than any Cabinet member." An Investors Business Daily story and slew of blog items repeated the charges.
    snip
    I have shown the WH visitor list/log to be very inaccurate
    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    i want to take a look at the White House Visitor Records from the official WH site and discovered some interesting facts.
    only about 20% had a TOA (time of arrival) beside their name and about 40% of those never had a TOD (time of departure)

    White House Visitor Records | The White House


    So according to your little article only 1 out of 5 attended meetings they was scheduled to attend and 40% of those never left after the meeting

    i would not trust the accuracy of that list
    the list shouldn't be used as evidence for the 157 visit and shouldn't be used to show 11 visits either

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