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Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

Ok, but that doesn't change the fact that it was unclear to me, w/o the bolding.

Honestly, why is that even an issue?



and without that bolding it was pretty unclear



Who's going to war? All i did was explain why I thought your comment was unclear

My comment was explicit as hell!! I am quite surpised that you are telling me you didn't understand it. Crap, I wasn't trying to make fun of you. I was friggin' agreeing with you, for Christ sake. When I post something, it is exactly as I state it. I leave the ulterior motives, and such, to the trolls.
 
I love how Republicans ignore the fact the IRS WAS doing what they should have been doing (just not doing it to nearly enough groups) and then talk about Bush. This, of course, after we've heard for the last year that Bush isn't in office anymore. It seems Republicans have no problem bringing up George W. Bush when it suits their purposes.

It's simple. The IRS should be cracking down on this practice. Most of America agrees money plays far too large of a role in American politics. We shouldn't be playing "my team vs. their team", we should be playing "citizens vs. corporations/billionaires". I'm far more offended that liberal groups were given a free pass than I am that Tea Party groups were flagged for review. This should have nothing to do with party politics.

Don't you think the questions were too invasive?

Why would the IRS care about what people prey about?

If the organization didn't comply with the rules, then they should have been denied, not put on a shelf and asked questions nobody could answer just to delay the application.

Do you not see that?
 
My comment was explicit as hell!! I am quite surpised that you are telling me you didn't understand it.

Well I honestly didn't understand it prior to the bolding. I'm not sure what you want me to do about that or why such is even causing you issues here

Crap, I wasn't trying to make fun of you.

I didn't think you were

I was friggin' agreeing with you, for Christ sake.

Yes, I get that

When I post something, it is exactly as I state it.

Ok ...

I leave the ulterior motives, and such, to the trolls.

cool ....
 
If they are doing politics instead of social welfare, then they need to be targeted. That being said, the same should hold true for Liberal groups. The real wrongdoing is that the IRS has not been even handed in their targeting of the cheating, and abuse of 527(c) status, by political groups.

If they are doing politics instead of social welfare, then they need to be denied.

That makes more sense.
 
If they are doing politics instead of social welfare, then they need to be denied.

That makes more sense.

It does, but, unfortunately, there is a huge gray area in the law, and this needs to be addressed.
 
Can anyone tell me how many Tea Party and conservative group was denied? can anyone tell me how many liberal groups was denied?
can anyone tell me how many Tea party group received their status?
can anyone tell me how many liberals groups received their status?

I know. just wonder if any of you know, and shouldn't that information be known before you can make any judgment
 
I don't have a problem with it? You clearly don't read my posts, I specifically said over and over that I don't believe any political group should receive tax extempt status.

Yet, you are hell bent on defending the wrongs that have been done by the IRS. Why is that, exactly? Lost in the partisan fog, or what?


Thank God we have a justice system in this country that doesn't use newspaper articles as evidence of illegal activity.

You still don't know what Crossroads's financials actually look like and like it, or not, WAPO doesn't know, either.
 
Because their primary activity is not the promotion of social welfare, their primary activity is politics.

Karl Rove's Crossroads is not primarily engaged in social welfare.


Define "social welfare"
 
Don't you think the questions were too invasive?

Why would the IRS care about what people prey about?

If the organization didn't comply with the rules, then they should have been denied, not put on a shelf and asked questions nobody could answer just to delay the application.

Do you not see that?
I don't understand your thought process. Delaying the application with an investigation is worse than outright denying without an investigation?
 
I don't understand your thought process. Delaying the application with an investigation is worse than outright denying without an investigation?

You didn't answer my question. Do you think the questions asked were too invasive? Were those the two only options? How about an investigation enough to know they don't comply and deny them.
 
I love watching mega-dems bend over for this. If it happened under republican direction and against democrats, mega-dems would be losing their minds in the other direction. There would be Hitler pics of Bush.

Using the IRS to specifically target political opponents is wrong. And for the record... it did happen under Bush. And the lack of knowledge of this would indicate that the losing of the minds in the other direction isn't as bad as one might have thought.
 
Using the IRS to specifically target political opponents is wrong. And for the record... it did happen under Bush. And the lack of knowledge of this would indicate that the losing of the minds in the other direction isn't as bad as one might have thought.

Yep, and the IG investigated it then as now...but they found no 'transgressions' then...but now, uh, well you know.
 
You didn't answer my question.
I did, actually. I answered your question with a question, one in which I was pretty confident in your answer. Once you agree denying outright is not worse than delaying, the rest of your post became fairly irrelevant. However, to more directly respond...

Do you think the questions asked were too invasive?
No, I do not. Perhaps they were the wrong questions, but they were not too invasive. Whenever you are applying for a certain privilege, you are pretty much at the discretion of the entity granting the privilege. If I was filing for 501(c)4 status, and I was asked a question in relation to my filing that I felt was too invasive, then I would not continue with the process.

Nobody has the right to that status, it's a privilege to be given. If you are applying and don't like the information required of you, then do not apply.

How about an investigation enough to know they don't comply and deny them.
That's what I've been wanting since this story first broke.
 
Define "social welfare"

I can tell you that social welfare is not buying political ads on TV, regardless of how much you may feel that the content of the ad is for social welfare. Social welfare is about providing a meaningful service to people, for example soup lines, free health care, housing for the homeless, etc, etc, etc its not about running a TV ad for someone.

And again, I don't whether you are liberal, conservative, republican or democrat, no one should cheat the tax system by getting a tax exempt status when their primary purpose isn't social welfare. In fact I don't think the words "primary activity" should be in the law, your group should be entirely engaged in social welfare for tax exempt status. But that's just my opinion and not really the issue.
 
I'm commenting on what I see you writing here

You seem like one of those partisans that bends over backwards claiming how non-partisan they are, while being partisan. If my impression is wrong, then I apologize
right, you just seem intent on focusing on the periphery tax designation issue

I don't think any political group whether democrat, republican, liberal, conservative, should get a tax exempt status
 
I am somewhat surprised that it wasn't until post #56, or so, that people began to <vaguely> consider what defines that "social welfare" and why this is a biased reference, biased to the left.


"Social Welfare" to me, and many if not most Cons, is the general welfare of society, and that comes about from the application of the terms of the Constitution, with government limited solely to the enumerated powers, with legislation and taxation and government's intrusion into every aspect of our lives being curtailed, then there is far more money in society, far more prosperity, and a greater increase in the well-being of society.

Throughout this thread I see references to the interests of the Tea Party and other similar organizations being predominantly "political", as the terrain of the body politic, and thereby should not be tax-exempt. In my view, this is precisely not the case, but reflects a corrupt method of evaluation. The terms of our government are not the fair game of politics, and were resolved at our country's foundation, and do not involve government social welfare programs, nor should they involve government taxing organizations that are not for profit, and basing this taxation "scheme" on such a skewed evaluation expecting such direct social activities.

I view the Tea Party as decidedly a-partisan, and unpolitical in nature, simply advocating legit governance, but you turn on any MSM media broadcast, and you'll hear some socialist mouthpiece trying to portray their ideals as "radical", because those ideals are hostile to big government and social engineering. It's not the Tea Party's fault that the Democratic Party has gone entirely Marxist, and big government, and is even entirely hostile to the original terms of "Liberal".

The flip side in this example is that those advocating awareness of the fraud that is Climate Change, or promoting the socialist corruption that is "Sustainable Development", by whatever activist social endeavors, would be readily recognized by those on the left <and the current IRS mentality> as promoting acceptable "social programs", but we on the Conservative side recognize these things for what they are: Social Engineering, big government intrusion, and the deliberate long-term intention to increasingly encroach upon, and eventually outright deny, individual freedoms - decidedly not of social benefit.

The fact that only one party vaguely adheres to the terms of the Constitution, with only specific politicians within it adhering to the terms of the Constitution, and the other party flagrantly violates those terms, everyone in near synchronous lockstep, is not the fault of the Tea Parties and other Conservative groups, because they did not interject what should not be in the political arena in the first place, into that political arena.
 
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I did, actually. I answered your question with a question, one in which I was pretty confident in your answer. Once you agree denying outright is not worse than delaying, the rest of your post became fairly irrelevant. However, to more directly respond...

No, I do not. Perhaps they were the wrong questions, but they were not too invasive. Whenever you are applying for a certain privilege, you are pretty much at the discretion of the entity granting the privilege. If I was filing for 501(c)4 status, and I was asked a question in relation to my filing that I felt was too invasive, then I would not continue with the process.

Nobody has the right to that status, it's a privilege to be given. If you are applying and don't like the information required of you, then do not apply.


That's what I've been wanting since this story first broke.

It is crazy how you bend over backwards to defend wrongdoing.

If the question is too invasive you would withdrawl your application. Even though I don't beleive that, you are excusing their behavior because that is exacty why they asked the unneccesary invasive questions.

If you went to apply for a drivers license, which is not a right either, and they asked you what you pray about, would you withdrawl your application for your license, or would you complain to the supervisor because that question has nothing to do with the application at hand?
 
It is crazy how you bend over backwards to defend wrongdoing.
It's crazy how incapable you are of understanding what my argument has been from the beginning.

If the question is too invasive you would withdrawl your application.
If I felt it was, I would. If I felt my application was worth more than the invasion, I'd stick it out. It's quite simple.

Even though I don't beleive that, you are excusing their behavior because that is exacty why they asked the unneccesary invasive questions.
I'm not excusing their behavior, I'm criticizing it. But instead of criticizing it for scrutiny of conservative groups, I'm criticizing it for not equally scrutinizing liberal groups. Try and keep up.

If you went to apply for a drivers license, which is not a right either, and they asked you what you pray about, would you withdrawl your application for your license
No, because I honestly would not care if they know what prayers I do or do not make.

You don't seem to understand what my position is. Perhaps if you were to go back through this thread and read my posts, it would clarify things for you.
 
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