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Thread: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    That is not even close to what I said. You're doing EXACTLY what I said people were doing, turning this into a political issue because you want your team to win.
    This is the only point I think that I can agree with here....See, I don't want this to end up at Obama's desk believe it or not....I'd much rather cast the spotlight on an out of control IRS, and abolish that agency through reforming the tax code.
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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is the only point I think that I can agree with here....See, I don't want this to end up at Obama's desk believe it or not....I'd much rather cast the spotlight on an out of control IRS, and abolish that agency through reforming the tax code.
    I'm not trying to be contrary, but why would I not believe that an American citizen doesn't want their President to be breaking the law? I'm only asking because I think it's quite a telling statement you made, even if it's not in the way you intended.

    The IRS is not going anywhere, and quite frankly, tax code reform will never make sense. Too many people's jobs would be affected if the tax code was simplified and too many businesses would lose too much money. I do agree we need a better system, one in which a visit from an IRS agent isn't going to ruin someone's life, or at the very least, make their life very difficult and stressful. But I just don't think the IRS will ever go away, because too many people rely on the system being the way it is.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 05-27-13 at 08:50 PM.

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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    That's not what all of this is about, now is it?
    I don't see a problem here, if you are seeking non profit status then you should expect to be scrutinized by the government. Senator Wyden of Oregon put it this way:

    WYDEN: For me, the basic proposition is simple. Notwithstanding the troubling and unacceptable conduct of the IRS, if political organizations do not want to be scrutinized by the government, they shouldn't seek privileges like tax-free status and anonymity for their donors. To argue otherwise is to advantage tax cheats to the detriment of law-abiding Americans.


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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I don't see a problem here, if you are seeking non profit status then you should expect to be scrutinized by the government. Senator Wyden of Oregon put it this way:
    The problem isn't that these groups were being scrutinized, the problem is the way they were being scrutinized and it was ONLY being applied to the right wing groups. Had this been done with ALL groups you wouldn't have a scandal.

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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The problem isn't that these groups were being scrutinized, the problem is the way they were being scrutinized and it was ONLY being applied to the right wing groups. Had this been done with ALL groups you wouldn't have a scandal.
    I'm not sure that's true, from the New York Times article at the OP:

    Emerge America, which trained women to run for office, was granted 501(c)(4) recognition in 2006, but its status was revoked in 2012. Training people how to run for office is not in itself partisan activity, but the I.R.S. determined that the group trained only Democratic women and was operated to benefit one party.


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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Well, here's the deal on the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, and the AP scandal:

    Obama is not a Muslim. Obama did not take his oath of office on the Koran. Obama's campaign was not funded by Hugo Chavez. The bulk of Obama's donations did not come from George Soros. Obama's birth certificate was not a forgery. Obama did not remove the American flag from his plane. Obama did not tell the Wall Street Journal that he wanted to redistribute the wealth. Fannie Mae Executives were never Obama's advisors. Obama did not file a lawsuit to force banks into giving loans to poor people who couldn't pay them off. Bill Ayers was not Obama's mentor. Obama did not admit to being a Muslim on ABC. Obama did not fail to qualify for a security clearance. Obama did not allow Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Obama did not receive aid for college from Indonesia. Obama never ordered his college records sealed. Obama was not born in Kenya. The AP never identified Obama as having been born in Kenya. Obama did not remove his shoes for Islamic Prayer Day. Obama never used teleprompters to speak to school children. Obama never tried to ban recreational fishing. Obama never used stimulus funds to save his brother-in-law's job. Obama has never refused to sign Eagle Scout certificates. Obama never surrendered his law license. Obama never cancelled a National Day of Prayer. Obama did not change the decor in the Oval Office. Obama never flew his dog on it's own airplane. Obama's trip to India did not cost 200 million dollars a day. Obama did not take off his wedding ring for Ramadan. Obama never used a fake social security card. Obama never had a foreign student ID. Obama has not signed more executive orders than any other president. Obama never signed an executive order giving him special powers. Obama did not have a marine relieved because he recognized an upside down flag pin on Obama's lapel. Obama never suppressed broadcasts from FOX News. Obama's wedding ring contains no Islamic inscriptions. A grand jury has never indicted Obama. Obama was not adopted. Obama never sold guns to the Taliban. Obama has not been previously divorced. Obama has never been on the board of directors of Factcheck.org. Obama is not creating FEMA death camps. Obama is not a Communist. Obama does not read antiamerican books. Sandy Hook was not a hoax created by Obama. Obama does not hate America.

    The above, and many more, are all claims made by those who hate Obama, and they have all been debunked....... Which brings me to the point I am about to make.....

    There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not significantly impacting Obama's favorability numbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing..... A point which has now been proven in real life by those who saw character assassination as a means to an end.
    Last edited by danarhea; 05-27-13 at 10:25 PM.
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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Well, here's the deal on the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, and the AP scandal:

    Obama is not a Muslim. Obama did not take his oath of office on the Koran. Obama's campaign was not funded by Hugo Chavez. The bulk of Obama's donations did not come from George Soros. Obama's birth certificate was not a forgery. Obama did not remove the American flag from his plane. Obama did not tell the Wall Street Journal that he wanted to redistribute the wealth. Fannie Mae Executives were never Obama's advisors. Obama did not file a lawsuit to force banks into giving loans to poor people who couldn't pay them off. Bill Ayers was not Obama's mentor. Obama did not admit to being a Muslim on ABC. Obama did not fail to qualify for a security clearance. Obama did not allow Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Obama did not receive aid for college from Indonesia. Obama never ordered his college records sealed. Obama was not born in Kenya. The AP never identified Obama as having been born in Kenya. Obama did not remove his shoes for Islamic Prayer Day. Obama never used teleprompters to speak to school children. Obama never tried to ban recreational fishing. Obama never used stimulus funds to save his brother-in-law's job. Obama has never refused to sign Eagle Scout certificates. Obama never surrendered his law license. Obama never cancelled a National Day of Prayer. Obama did not change the decor in the Oval Office. Obama never flew his dog on it's own airplane. Obama's trip to India did not cost 200 million dollars a day. Obama did not take off his wedding ring for Ramadan. Obama never used a fake social security card. Obama never had a foreign student ID. Obama has not signed more executive orders than any other president. Obama never signed an executive order giving him special powers. Obama did not have a marine relieved because he recognized an upside down flag pin on Obama's lapel. Obama never suppressed broadcasts from FOX News. Obama's wedding ring contains no Islamic inscriptions. A grand jury has never indicted Obama. Obama was not adopted. Obama never sold guns to the Taliban. Obama has not been previously divorced. Obama has never been on the board of directors of Factcheck.org. Obama is not creating FEMA death camps. Obama is not a Communist. Obama does not read antiamerican books. Sandy Hook was not a hoax created by Obama. Obama does not hate America.

    The above, and many more, are all claims made by those who hate Obama, and they have all been debunked....... Which brings me to the point I am about to make.....

    There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not impacting Obama's favorability numbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing.
    Now if only anybody in this thread had been talking about any of that, it would have something to do with this topic and your "point" would be sharp rather than dull. Of course you are just beating a familiar drum. As to the three scandals you mentioned, since investigations are ongoing it remains to be seen what impact this will all have upon "favorability" numbers ultimately. As if that is the really important matter here. Besides last I looked "they" had taken a hit and at the same time the public's trust in the GOP has risen above the democrats, which last month were below them. While at the same time the democrats numbers have fallen below the GOP owing to these scandals. Not that any of that amounts to a hill of beans either.
    Last edited by Gie; 05-27-13 at 10:36 PM.

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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm not trying to be contrary, but why would I not believe that an American citizen doesn't want their President to be breaking the law? I'm only asking because I think it's quite a telling statement you made, even if it's not in the way you intended.

    The IRS is not going anywhere, and quite frankly, tax code reform will never make sense. Too many people's jobs would be affected if the tax code was simplified and too many businesses would lose too much money. I do agree we need a better system, one in which a visit from an IRS agent isn't going to ruin someone's life, or at the very least, make their life very difficult and stressful. But I just don't think the IRS will ever go away, because too many people rely on the system being the way it is.
    Our history with the tax system is that it gets out of control, and tax reform is done. We have never gotten to this point where the system is being used as a tool to the extent it is today....If this stops with Lerner, (which she has this exact M.O. when she went after the Christian Coalition) then it is possible that a flatter, broader, easier tax system could be employed with approval of the people....Just because the life long government bureaucrats might lose some positions, I have no doubt that with their qualifications they could land on their feet. Their jobs should be no more guaranteed then the rest of us. Downsizing, and streamlining the IRS would be a good thing.
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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post

    There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not significantly impacting Obama's favorabilitynumbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing..... A point which has now been proven in real life by those who saw character assassination as a means to an end.
    there is always a lag in the favorability numbers and scandals. favorability polls are done either once a month or every other week then you have to give a week for the poller to process the numbers. Obama ratings have dropped by 3 to 4 points already. and those polls where before Lehner pleaded the fifth and other evidence that the WH at best knew about the targeting.
    It took 2 months before Nixon ratings dropped during the water gate scandal it took over a month before Clinton/Monica Luwinski affair before his dropped. be patient. come back in a month and try to make that same claim
    Last edited by trfjr; 05-27-13 at 10:47 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Our history with the tax system is that it gets out of control, and tax reform is done. We have never gotten to this point where the system is being used as a tool to the extent it is today....If this stops with Lerner, (which she has this exact M.O. when she went after the Christian Coalition) then it is possible that a flatter, broader, easier tax system could be employed with approval of the people....Just because the life long government bureaucrats might lose some positions, I have no doubt that with their qualifications they could land on their feet. Their jobs should be no more guaranteed then the rest of us. Downsizing, and streamlining the IRS would be a good thing.
    It's not just the IRS employees who would lose their jobs though. That's kind of what I was getting at.

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