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Groups Targeted by I.R.S. Tested Rules on Politics

Well, here's the deal on the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, and the AP scandal:

Obama is not a Muslim. Obama did not take his oath of office on the Koran. Obama's campaign was not funded by Hugo Chavez. The bulk of Obama's donations did not come from George Soros. Obama's birth certificate was not a forgery. Obama did not remove the American flag from his plane. Obama did not tell the Wall Street Journal that he wanted to redistribute the wealth. Fannie Mae Executives were never Obama's advisors. Obama did not file a lawsuit to force banks into giving loans to poor people who couldn't pay them off. Bill Ayers was not Obama's mentor. Obama did not admit to being a Muslim on ABC. Obama did not fail to qualify for a security clearance. Obama did not allow Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Obama did not receive aid for college from Indonesia. Obama never ordered his college records sealed. Obama was not born in Kenya. The AP never identified Obama as having been born in Kenya. Obama did not remove his shoes for Islamic Prayer Day. Obama never used teleprompters to speak to school children. Obama never tried to ban recreational fishing. Obama never used stimulus funds to save his brother-in-law's job. Obama has never refused to sign Eagle Scout certificates. Obama never surrendered his law license. Obama never cancelled a National Day of Prayer. Obama did not change the decor in the Oval Office. Obama never flew his dog on it's own airplane. Obama's trip to India did not cost 200 million dollars a day. Obama did not take off his wedding ring for Ramadan. Obama never used a fake social security card. Obama never had a foreign student ID. Obama has not signed more executive orders than any other president. Obama never signed an executive order giving him special powers. Obama did not have a marine relieved because he recognized an upside down flag pin on Obama's lapel. Obama never suppressed broadcasts from FOX News. Obama's wedding ring contains no Islamic inscriptions. A grand jury has never indicted Obama. Obama was not adopted. Obama never sold guns to the Taliban. Obama has not been previously divorced. Obama has never been on the board of directors of Factcheck.org. Obama is not creating FEMA death camps. Obama is not a Communist. Obama does not read antiamerican books. Sandy Hook was not a hoax created by Obama. Obama does not hate America.

The above, and many more, are all claims made by those who hate Obama, and they have all been debunked....... Which brings me to the point I am about to make.....

There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not significantly impacting Obama's favorability numbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing..... A point which has now been proven in real life by those who saw character assassination as a means to an end.
 
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danarhea said:
Well, here's the deal on the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, and the AP scandal:

Obama is not a Muslim. Obama did not take his oath of office on the Koran. Obama's campaign was not funded by Hugo Chavez. The bulk of Obama's donations did not come from George Soros. Obama's birth certificate was not a forgery. Obama did not remove the American flag from his plane. Obama did not tell the Wall Street Journal that he wanted to redistribute the wealth. Fannie Mae Executives were never Obama's advisors. Obama did not file a lawsuit to force banks into giving loans to poor people who couldn't pay them off. Bill Ayers was not Obama's mentor. Obama did not admit to being a Muslim on ABC. Obama did not fail to qualify for a security clearance. Obama did not allow Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Obama did not receive aid for college from Indonesia. Obama never ordered his college records sealed. Obama was not born in Kenya. The AP never identified Obama as having been born in Kenya. Obama did not remove his shoes for Islamic Prayer Day. Obama never used teleprompters to speak to school children. Obama never tried to ban recreational fishing. Obama never used stimulus funds to save his brother-in-law's job. Obama has never refused to sign Eagle Scout certificates. Obama never surrendered his law license. Obama never cancelled a National Day of Prayer. Obama did not change the decor in the Oval Office. Obama never flew his dog on it's own airplane. Obama's trip to India did not cost 200 million dollars a day. Obama did not take off his wedding ring for Ramadan. Obama never used a fake social security card. Obama never had a foreign student ID. Obama has not signed more executive orders than any other president. Obama never signed an executive order giving him special powers. Obama did not have a marine relieved because he recognized an upside down flag pin on Obama's lapel. Obama never suppressed broadcasts from FOX News. Obama's wedding ring contains no Islamic inscriptions. A grand jury has never indicted Obama. Obama was not adopted. Obama never sold guns to the Taliban. Obama has not been previously divorced. Obama has never been on the board of directors of Factcheck.org. Obama is not creating FEMA death camps. Obama is not a Communist. Obama does not read antiamerican books. Sandy Hook was not a hoax created by Obama. Obama does not hate America.

The above, and many more, are all claims made by those who hate Obama, and they have all been debunked....... Which brings me to the point I am about to make.....

There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not impacting Obama's favorability numbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing.
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Now if only anybody in this thread had been talking about any of that, it would have something to do with this topic and your "point" would be sharp rather than dull. Of course you are just beating a familiar drum. As to the three scandals you mentioned, since investigations are ongoing it remains to be seen what impact this will all have upon "favorability" numbers ultimately. As if that is the really important matter here. Besides last I looked "they" had taken a hit and at the same time the public's trust in the GOP has risen above the democrats, which last month were below them. While at the same time the democrats numbers have fallen below the GOP owing to these scandals. Not that any of that amounts to a hill of beans either. :roll:
 
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Slyfox696 said:
I'm not trying to be contrary, but why would I not believe that an American citizen doesn't want their President to be breaking the law? I'm only asking because I think it's quite a telling statement you made, even if it's not in the way you intended.

The IRS is not going anywhere, and quite frankly, tax code reform will never make sense. Too many people's jobs would be affected if the tax code was simplified and too many businesses would lose too much money. I do agree we need a better system, one in which a visit from an IRS agent isn't going to ruin someone's life, or at the very least, make their life very difficult and stressful. But I just don't think the IRS will ever go away, because too many people rely on the system being the way it is.
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Our history with the tax system is that it gets out of control, and tax reform is done. We have never gotten to this point where the system is being used as a tool to the extent it is today....If this stops with Lerner, (which she has this exact M.O. when she went after the Christian Coalition) then it is possible that a flatter, broader, easier tax system could be employed with approval of the people....Just because the life long government bureaucrats might lose some positions, I have no doubt that with their qualifications they could land on their feet. Their jobs should be no more guaranteed then the rest of us. Downsizing, and streamlining the IRS would be a good thing.
 
danarhea said:
There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not significantly impacting Obama's favorabilitynumbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing..... A point which has now been proven in real life by those who saw character assassination as a means to an end.
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there is always a lag in the favorability numbers and scandals. favorability polls are done either once a month or every other week then you have to give a week for the poller to process the numbers. Obama ratings have dropped by 3 to 4 points already. and those polls where before Lehner pleaded the fifth and other evidence that the WH at best knew about the targeting.
It took 2 months before Nixon ratings dropped during the water gate scandal it took over a month before Clinton/Monica Luwinski affair before his dropped. be patient. come back in a month and try to make that same claim
 
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j-mac said:
Our history with the tax system is that it gets out of control, and tax reform is done. We have never gotten to this point where the system is being used as a tool to the extent it is today....If this stops with Lerner, (which she has this exact M.O. when she went after the Christian Coalition) then it is possible that a flatter, broader, easier tax system could be employed with approval of the people....Just because the life long government bureaucrats might lose some positions, I have no doubt that with their qualifications they could land on their feet. Their jobs should be no more guaranteed then the rest of us. Downsizing, and streamlining the IRS would be a good thing.
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It's not just the IRS employees who would lose their jobs though. That's kind of what I was getting at.
 
Slyfox696 said:
It's not just the IRS employees who would lose their jobs though. That's kind of what I was getting at.
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Ok? Still not seeing why any bureaucrats job is more important than anyone elses....
 
99percenter said:
I hope this puts all the IRS scandal crap to rest. These groups should have been targeted because they were not eligible for tax exempt status and were still applying.
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Again you fail to understand the most elementary information. The problem is they were targeted for special scrutiny not conducted on liberal orgs? Get it now?
 
danarhea said:
Well, here's the deal on the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, and the AP scandal:

Obama is not a Muslim. Obama did not take his oath of office on the Koran. Obama's campaign was not funded by Hugo Chavez. The bulk of Obama's donations did not come from George Soros. Obama's birth certificate was not a forgery. Obama did not remove the American flag from his plane. Obama did not tell the Wall Street Journal that he wanted to redistribute the wealth. Fannie Mae Executives were never Obama's advisors. Obama did not file a lawsuit to force banks into giving loans to poor people who couldn't pay them off. Bill Ayers was not Obama's mentor. Obama did not admit to being a Muslim on ABC. Obama did not fail to qualify for a security clearance. Obama did not allow Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Obama did not receive aid for college from Indonesia. Obama never ordered his college records sealed. Obama was not born in Kenya. The AP never identified Obama as having been born in Kenya. Obama did not remove his shoes for Islamic Prayer Day. Obama never used teleprompters to speak to school children. Obama never tried to ban recreational fishing. Obama never used stimulus funds to save his brother-in-law's job. Obama has never refused to sign Eagle Scout certificates. Obama never surrendered his law license. Obama never cancelled a National Day of Prayer. Obama did not change the decor in the Oval Office. Obama never flew his dog on it's own airplane. Obama's trip to India did not cost 200 million dollars a day. Obama did not take off his wedding ring for Ramadan. Obama never used a fake social security card. Obama never had a foreign student ID. Obama has not signed more executive orders than any other president. Obama never signed an executive order giving him special powers. Obama did not have a marine relieved because he recognized an upside down flag pin on Obama's lapel. Obama never suppressed broadcasts from FOX News. Obama's wedding ring contains no Islamic inscriptions. A grand jury has never indicted Obama. Obama was not adopted. Obama never sold guns to the Taliban. Obama has not been previously divorced. Obama has never been on the board of directors of Factcheck.org. Obama is not creating FEMA death camps. Obama is not a Communist. Obama does not read antiamerican books. Sandy Hook was not a hoax created by Obama. Obama does not hate America.

The above, and many more, are all claims made by those who hate Obama, and they have all been debunked....... Which brings me to the point I am about to make.....

There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not significantly impacting Obama's favorability numbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing..... A point which has now been proven in real life by those who saw character assassination as a means to an end.
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Lol....the right wingers are the ones with the credibility problem ? Not quite.

Check the polls that show the majority believe the targeting of Conservatives didn't just stop at the IRS.

Look, you come in here with a ridiculous self created " cry wolf " account of the scandals, repeating totally irrelevant left wing talking points just to marginalize three scandals that Liberals WISH would have happened under Bush and don't post one single fact or link to back up your silly one dimensional hypothesis.

60% Say It

Your right "credibility is everything" as you ignore the IRS scandal, the ridiculous accounts from IRS officials under oath, including a key central figure pleading the fifth and then preach to us about " accountability".

FFS, there are CONSEQUENCES to electing incompetent and corrupt ideologues to be your President.
 
Seems pretty obvious that more Republican groups would fall to scrutiny than Democratic groups. Poor people generally favor democrats, but are too apathetic to bother voting.

The Democrat groups could get the results they wanted by spending a large chunk of their money on apolitical "get out and vote" campaigns with "vote Democrat" as just the icing on the cake. The Republican groups were hobbled because they had to spend all their money on "vote Republican, not Democrat" campaigns.
 
danarhea said:
Well, here's the deal on the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, and the AP scandal:

Obama is not a Muslim. Obama did not take his oath of office on the Koran. Obama's campaign was not funded by Hugo Chavez. The bulk of Obama's donations did not come from George Soros. Obama's birth certificate was not a forgery. Obama did not remove the American flag from his plane. Obama did not tell the Wall Street Journal that he wanted to redistribute the wealth. Fannie Mae Executives were never Obama's advisors. Obama did not file a lawsuit to force banks into giving loans to poor people who couldn't pay them off. Bill Ayers was not Obama's mentor. Obama did not admit to being a Muslim on ABC. Obama did not fail to qualify for a security clearance. Obama did not allow Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Obama did not receive aid for college from Indonesia. Obama never ordered his college records sealed. Obama was not born in Kenya. The AP never identified Obama as having been born in Kenya. Obama did not remove his shoes for Islamic Prayer Day. Obama never used teleprompters to speak to school children. Obama never tried to ban recreational fishing. Obama never used stimulus funds to save his brother-in-law's job. Obama has never refused to sign Eagle Scout certificates. Obama never surrendered his law license. Obama never cancelled a National Day of Prayer. Obama did not change the decor in the Oval Office. Obama never flew his dog on it's own airplane. Obama's trip to India did not cost 200 million dollars a day. Obama did not take off his wedding ring for Ramadan. Obama never used a fake social security card. Obama never had a foreign student ID. Obama has not signed more executive orders than any other president. Obama never signed an executive order giving him special powers. Obama did not have a marine relieved because he recognized an upside down flag pin on Obama's lapel. Obama never suppressed broadcasts from FOX News. Obama's wedding ring contains no Islamic inscriptions. A grand jury has never indicted Obama. Obama was not adopted. Obama never sold guns to the Taliban. Obama has not been previously divorced. Obama has never been on the board of directors of Factcheck.org. Obama is not creating FEMA death camps. Obama is not a Communist. Obama does not read antiamerican books. Sandy Hook was not a hoax created by Obama. Obama does not hate America.

The above, and many more, are all claims made by those who hate Obama, and they have all been debunked....... Which brings me to the point I am about to make.....

There is a very good reason why the Benghazi scandal, the IRS scandal, and the AP scandal are not significantly impacting Obama's favorability numbers. When you cry wolf long enough, people stop giving a damn about anything you have to say, and just see you as liars, and nothing more. Credibility is everything. Once you lose that, you lose everything, and end up with nothing..... A point which has now been proven in real life by those who saw character assassination as a means to an end.
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Do you have anything relevant to add regarding the OP, or more this ****?
 
ChunkySalsa said:
Seems pretty obvious that more Republican groups would fall to scrutiny than Democratic groups. Poor people generally favor democrats, but are too apathetic to bother voting.

The Democrat groups could get the results they wanted by spending a large chunk of their money on apolitical "get out and vote" campaigns with "vote Democrat" as just the icing on the cake. The Republican groups were hobbled because they had to spend all their money on "vote Republican, not Democrat" campaigns.
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It's difficult to vote to be a responsible citizen, and easy to vote for free money.
 
American said:
Again you fail to understand the most elementary information. The problem is they were targeted for special scrutiny not conducted on liberal orgs? Get it now?
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True but they were trying to cheat the tax system that is undeniable as well. Neither these conservative groups nor the similar liberal groups should have gotten tax free status, problem is that this IRS office only gave the special scrunity to the conservative side.

We shouldn't be calling on the IRS to stop this scrutiny of political groups trying to pretend to be social welfare organizations, but instead calling for them to do all this and more to everyone. No one should be able to cheat the tax system because of politics and we should want anyone to be able to cheat it because we like their politics.
 
Wonderful....so by the great logic presented here, we should start racially profiling for terrorism and if that turns up instances that would actually normally send up red flags then that would prove that said racially profiling is a-okay

:roll:

Attempting to enforce the law is fine. Tailoring your search for law violations in a way that targets violators of a particular political view point, rather than tailored in a way that simply searches for any violators, is not fine.
 
Dems freaking out over the very tactics they invented and get them elected.

Irony.
 
Wiseone said:
True but they were trying to cheat the tax system that is undeniable as well. Neither these conservative groups nor the similar liberal groups should have gotten tax free status, problem is that this IRS office only gave the special scrunity to the conservative side.

We shouldn't be calling on the IRS to stop this scrutiny of political groups trying to pretend to be social welfare organizations, but instead calling for them to do all this and more to everyone. No one should be able to cheat the tax system because of politics and we should want anyone to be able to cheat it because we like their politics.
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Never said they shouldn't be scrutinized, as long as the protocol is evenhanded.
 
American said:
Do you have anything relevant to add regarding the OP, or more this ****?
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Actually, what I posted was related to the OP. I was explaining why not that many are believing the scandals that are now out there. And you come back with crap like this to answer it? Slow troll day for you today? Go back under your bridge. :mrgreen:
 
Wiseone said:
True but they were trying to cheat the tax system that is undeniable as well. Neither these conservative groups nor the similar liberal groups should have gotten tax free status, problem is that this IRS office only gave the special scrunity to the conservative side.

We shouldn't be calling on the IRS to stop this scrutiny of political groups trying to pretend to be social welfare organizations, but instead calling for them to do all this and more to everyone. No one should be able to cheat the tax system because of politics and we should want anyone to be able to cheat it because we like their politics.
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Where's your evidence that they were trying to cheat the tax system?

Do you even know what a 501 (c) 4 is?

501(c)(4) organizations may inform the public on controversial subjects and attempt to influence legislation relevant to its program and, unlike 501(c)(3) organizations, they may also participate in political campaigns and elections, as long as its primary activity is the promotion of social welfare.
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apdst said:
Where's your evidence that they were trying to cheat the tax system?

Do you even know what a 501 (c) 4 is?
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Because their primary activity is not the promotion of social welfare, their primary activity is politics.

Karl Rove's Crossroads is not primarily engaged in social welfare.
 
Damn! How'd I do that.
 
Wiseone said:
Because their primary activity is not the promotion of social welfare, their primary activity is politics. Karl Rove's Crossroads is not primarily engaged in social welfare.
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1) You don't know that, since you don't have access to their financials and can't see how much of their activity accounts for, "social welfare".

2) If that's the case, then the applications should have been outright denied and the orginizations advised as to what route they should take in setting up their orgizinational tax status. However, that didn't happen. Did it? AND, it only happened to Right Wing groups. And...AND...the scrutiny stopped after the election.


There's no evidence that this was a legitimate investigation of NFP's, to make sure they were in compliance.
 
Slyfox696 said:
That is not even close to what I said. You're doing EXACTLY what I said people were doing, turning this into a political issue because you want your team to win.
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actually, I imagine the whole thing with targeting groups based on their politics is what made it political ...
 
Slyfox696 said:
It's not just the IRS employees who would lose their jobs though. That's kind of what I was getting at.
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All of the money Citizens spend on complying with the federal tax laws could be considered
part of the cost of goods sold of our government.
Any reduction in that cost would help the economy.
As it stands now the money is extracted from the system with a law of diminishing returns.
Every time a dollar cycles through the government, only change comes back.
I know if there were no IRS (say a federal sales tax), Many people would have to find
something else to do.
 
pbrauer said:
I don't see a problem here, if you are seeking non profit status then you should expect to be scrutinized by the government.
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because such scrutiny was leveraged based on perceived political affiliation.

Really, what is hard to understand about this?
 
TheNextEra said:
The problem isn't that these groups were being scrutinized, the problem is the way they were being scrutinized and it was ONLY being applied to the right wing groups. Had this been done with ALL groups you wouldn't have a scandal.
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Shut up, righty~!!!
 
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