Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 157

Thread: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

  1. #41
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    If the traffic laws are designed based on what is safe, then you have my full agreement. Unsafe driving should be penalized.

    But what about places where that's not true? For example you might have a 4 lane highway that inexplicably drops from 55 mph to 45mph. There's no reason for the drop, and police will sit at the border and give motorists tickets. This is the exception, not the rule. But it does happen.

    I think that any law or action the government takes should have a clearly discernible purpose. If you want to raise money, make the road toll. Charge everyone $1. Otherwise it turns it into a kind of tax lottery where 1 in a 400 motorists has to pay a $400 fine and the rest pay nothing.
    Sure, there are speed traps. Probably many fewer than years ago, I would guess. But that's not where the majority of tickets are issued. Far and away, most tickets are issued due to scoff-law driving or carelessness. The same two reasons for most accidents, I'm sure. It's not that hard to obey traffic laws.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  2. #42
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,314

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I vaguely recall some indications that they might actually increase accidents, because people freak out when the light turns yellow and slam on the breaks when they might otherwise have safely gone through the intersection during the switchover.
    Exactly. Several studies, including one conducted by the U of South Florida some years ago, show that while the classic "T Bone" type collision was reduced, the number of rear end collisions increased.

    The red light cameras are a complete ripoff. I was very involved in local efforts to stop them, and surprise surprise, we actually prevailed in that effort.

    Highway robbery conducted by the state is all they are.

    Recently here in Florida, several municipalities were caught shortening the duration of the yellow lights at various intersections. That generates more revenue.

  3. #43
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,314

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    There's something I just realized about a claim made in the title of the article. “System made $71 Million”

    What does it mean to “make” money?

    In legitimate business, money is made by producing and selling goods and/or services that are more valuable than what it cost to provide them. People and equipment working to turn less valuable materials into more valuable products are what create wealth. If a company spends a million dollars in materials, labor, and other expenses, to produce products which it is able to sell for two billion dollars, then it has created a million dollars in wealth.

    So, how did Chicago's red-light camera system “make” seventy-one million dollars? It didn't. It just took it. It created a situation in which otherwise diligent motorists are tricked into running red lights, caught them doing so on camera, and fined them. It didn't create seventy-million dollars worth of new wealth. It didn't even create a penny of new wealth. It just took wealth from others, leaving those from whom it was taken poorer, in total, by exactly the same as the amount by which it thus enriched itself.
    In the course of fighting a RLC system proposed in my city, over the course of several months I was briefed by 2 different police officers on just how these systems are designed and implemented.

    They must have an intersection with sufficient volume of traffic, or they won't install it. But with the properly designed intersection with the proper number of cameras (5 is ideal), they can generate revenue of about $1000 per camera per 24 hour period. That's why ATS and others are in the business--it is a statistical certainty that, given the volume, at any given time a certain number of unwary drivers will be caught "in the box". Only tail end of the car or truck need be "in the box", and it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

  4. #44
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,314

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Pishaw. If you don't think the first time you're caught by a red light camera you are more cautious next time? I don't know what you're thinking. The only thing people understand is $$. This brings the point home rather nicely, I think.
    What you're failing to realize is that the POINT is profit.

    That is, the point is NOT safety, it is revenue. The point is NOT fairness or justice, it is revenue.

  5. #45
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    What you're failing to realize is that the POINT is profit.

    That is, the point is NOT safety, it is revenue. The point is NOT fairness or justice, it is revenue.
    Unlike others, apparently, I have no problem with profit.

    If you've never seen the end results of a truck running a red light while a young teen driver made the assumption that, since the light was red, he was safe to make a left turn in front of it, you've been missing something. Red light cameras save lives. That they make a profit is just an added bonus.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  6. #46
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 11:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,849

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unlike others, apparently, I have no problem with profit.

    If you've never seen the end results of a truck running a red light while a young teen driver made the assumption that, since the light was red, he was safe to make a left turn in front of it, you've been missing something. Red light cameras save lives. That they make a profit is just an added bonus.
    A camera wouldnt prevent an accident in which the driver made such a fundamental error
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #47
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,314

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unlike others, apparently, I have no problem with profit.

    If you've never seen the end results of a truck running a red light while a young teen driver made the assumption that, since the light was red, he was safe to make a left turn in front of it, you've been missing something. Red light cameras save lives. That they make a profit is just an added bonus.
    I'm really sorry that people are killed in auto accidents, including failure to yield accidents, but you are absolutely wrong that RLC save lives. It is a corrupt system that is concerned only with revenue.

    Consider this Maggie: if it's true that RLC save lives, why do they not install them at every single intersection with a traffic light? If they really deliver improvements in safety, why is the state not implementing them at every intersection in town?

  8. #48
    Sage
    Lord of Planar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Portlandia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,354

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unlike others, apparently, I have no problem with profit.

    If you've never seen the end results of a truck running a red light while a young teen driver made the assumption that, since the light was red, he was safe to make a left turn in front of it, you've been missing something. Red light cameras save lives. That they make a profit is just an added bonus.
    I have to agree with you. I say let them all the profit they want from these people.

    Now I do understand that some lights are too short, but that's a small share of them, and if a tailgater hits you... was he going to intentionally run it?

    The last accident I was in, I was doing 40 MPH, and a Dodge caravan rolled right through a stop sign, not seeing me. I could have been hurt bad, but slammed on the brakes and collapsed the front of both cars.The reason is when the speeds of our two moving vehicles kept the driver from seeing past the door frame. That was about 8 years ago. Now last year, my ex was in a crosswalk, and hit by a driver rolling through the stop sign. Same thing. Her walking speed and his driving speed kept her invisible to him by the door frame...

  9. #49
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A camera wouldnt prevent an accident in which the driver made such a fundamental error
    Red-light cameras tell drivers not to run reds. They are clearly posted. To assume a red-light camera in that instance would have made no difference is to belie the reason they're there.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #50
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I'm really sorry that people are killed in auto accidents, including failure to yield accidents, but you are absolutely wrong that RLC save lives. It is a corrupt system that is concerned only with revenue.

    Consider this Maggie: if it's true that RLC save lives, why do they not install them at every single intersection with a traffic light? If they really deliver improvements in safety, why is the state not implementing them at every intersection in town?
    I don't know what the criteria is for installation, but I'm assuming it has to do with number of accidents and tickets issued at particular intersections. For instance, in the accident I referenced about the truck and the teen? A red-light camera was installed shortly after the teen died.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •